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1909 Argentine head space

tsuchiura2
I have a 1909 Argentine that I suspect might have a head space problem OR I have run across some hot ammunition. When i first bought it, I ran Norma ammo through it without obvious problems. Norma is pricy, so i bought some surplus FN 7.65x53 for it. After the first round of the FN, the bolt was very difficult to open. That was the last round of the FN I fired. I put it all back in the closet and now two years later I am itching to shoot it again, safely. I got the mic out and measured the cases before and after

Norma before 2.095
Norma after 2.103

FN before 2.103
FN after 2.122

Just how much should one expect a case length increase after firing?
If the head space is the problem, what is the recommended fix? I also have an 03'A3 that I like to shoot with squib loads and gas checked lead bullets - is this an acceptable alternative solution?

Thanks in advance - this is a great forum.
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Comments

5 comments

Date Votes
  • nononsense
    tsuchiura2,

    I don't think that you have a 'headspace' problem. I think that you have brass growth, which happens in most cartridges when fired. The brass heats up upon firing and flows forward. Headspace is not measured by the overall length of a bottleneck cartridge. It is measured from a datum point on the cartridge to the boltface. I don't usually recommend that people unfamiliar with headspace, try to check headspace by themselves. You are best advised to take it to a gunsmith and have him use a set of headspace gauges to check your rifle. The bolt has to be disassembled in order to do this right. It is worth the small amount that you might get charged for this service, for the peace of mind that it will bring.

    While you have the rifle in, the gunsmith should look at the lug seat and the back of the bolt lugs to see if any damage was done and suggest any further remedies if needed.

    This is brief so go to a gunsmith and get it checked. DO NOT SHOOT any more of that ammunition as it is apparently too hot for your rifle.

    Best.
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  • rufe-snow
    Chances are, that military ammo is loaded to hot. Since the Norma works OK, that tells the story.

    Seems to me that you got two choices.

    1), Graf & Sons is selling NEW loaded, boxer primed commerical ammo at $20.00 @ box.

    http://www.grafs.com/bulkByBagQty.cfm/startItem/1

    2), Since you reload, get yourself some Lee dies and using the Norma brass start loading your own. The only thing different from 30-06 would be the bullet diameter. It should be .311 in diameter, which means you can use any projectile sold to reload the 303 British or the 7.62 x 54R cartridges, safely.

    luger_4.jpg
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense
    tsuchiura2,

    I don't think that you have a 'headspace' problem. I think that you have brass growth, which happens in most cartridges when fired. The brass heats up upon firing and flows forward. Headspace is not measured by the overall length of a bottleneck cartridge. It is measured from a datum point on the cartridge to the boltface. I don't usually recommend that people unfamiliar with headspace, try to check headspace by themselves. You are best advised to take it to a gunsmith and have him use a set of headspace gauges to check your rifle. The bolt has to be disassembled in order to do this right. It is worth the small amount that you might get charged for this service, for the peace of mind that it will bring.

    While you have the rifle in, the gunsmith should look at the lug seat and the back of the bolt lugs to see if any damage was done and suggest any further remedies if needed.

    This is brief so go to a gunsmith and get it checked. DO NOT SHOOT any more of that ammunition as it is apparently too hot for your rifle.

    Best.










    Nononsense has given you some excellent advice.

    The problem would be the headspace gauge itself. As you would need a gauge specific for the 7.65 Argentine cartridge. I doubt if your local gunsmith would have this specific gauge.

    In absence of the correct gauge, most gunsmiths try to "wing it" by either useing tape or washers to jury rig a headspace gauge.

    If your going to be paying for it , insist the gunsmith obtain the correct gauge.

    luger_4.jpg
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  • tsuchiura2
    Thanks guys! I knew the gunsmith was in my future, but is always better to do some homework first.
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  • 260
    i think it should be checked out also. you could have lug setback also, from a soft receiver or bolt.
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