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What's a 'British Lend Lease' Garand?

Rebel_James
I've ordered a Garand from the CMP, but ran across a deal on another one the other day. I haven't seen it yet, but the owner says it's a 'British Lend Lease' Garand. What does that mean? Were any parts 'cut' on those, value range, etc.?

He also says he has 1000 rounds of .30-06 black tipped ammo that goes with it. What is the black tipped ammo and is it ok to shoot it in the Garand?

Thanks in advance for ya'lls help.






"If they won't give us good terms, come back and we'll fight it out."
-- Gen. James Longstreet
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Comments

6 comments

Date Votes
  • dotcom_guy30
    the lend lease program was a deal were the united states sent war materials such as guns ,maybe tanks , and so forth to england and russia , and other people like the french resistance the deal was we would send them to europe to fight the war with and pay for them later ...or something like this just giving an idea what lend lease was now black tip ammo is highly corrosive armor peicing ammo a thousand rounds well i would ask to see a pic of the bore to make sure there is still rifiling ya know to see if the rifle was cleaned and also to see if it is wore from armor peircing ammo but this ammo was desinded i think escpacilly for the garand but as far as lend lease rifle it should look just like an american garand

    the thing that scares me is that we could be living in someone else's own reality
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  • nmyers
    In order to get an idea of what to look for, check out Scott Duff's website; he just posted one for sale.

    If it is the real thing, it could be quite valuable. Many of the lend lease M1's are completely original, & some are in excellent condition.

    Neal
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  • mark christian
    In early 1941 FDR directed that 38,001 M1 service rifle be shipped to the British as part of the Lend Lease program and to help offset the huge losses of military hardware the British had left behind at Dunkirk the year before. Unfortunitly no one took the time to ship along any .30-06 ammunition and that caliber was not being produced in Great Britain at that time (at least no MILSPEC .30-06 ammo for the M1). As a result the 38,000 plus one M1 rifles spent most of the war sitting around in the hands of the home gaurd because by the time the U.S. began shipping in its massive quantites of war material to what was by then our British allies, Britain no longer needed US rifles to replace its losses at Dunkirk. The war ended and the Lend Lease Garands sat in limbo.

    By the late 1950's the Lend Lease Garands were released from British war stores and sold on the commercial market-- some of the only M1 rifles then made avaiable as the M1 was still our standard service rifle and nearly impossible to locate without "liberating" one from Uncle Sam. Most Leand Lease Garands had red stripes painted somewhere on their stocks or upper bands to indicate a non standard (for the British) caliber or a broad arrow marking. None of the M1s were proof marked when origianlly deliverd to England but British law demanded that all firearms sold commercially be proven at one of the British proof houses and when these Lend Lease Garands were sold in Britain they bore such proof marks, of which there were a number of observed variations.

    It is vital to keep in mind that simply because an M1 bears a British proof mark does not mean that it is an original Lend Lease Garand. After the end of WWII Britain was a clearing house for tons and tons of surplus firearms which importers sent on to the United States. Sam Cummings of Interarmco (later Interarms) kept his office in London for just such reasons. If any firearms were resold within Great Britain then all such firearms sold had to be proven under British law at a proof house. It is worth noting that M1 rifles were still sold in Britain up to 1991 (the M1 was until then considered an obsolete rifle using an obsolete military cartridge) when there was a total end to semi automatic rifle sales. I'd need a serial number of the rifle in question to tell you more. By the way, I appreciate your kind remarks about the photos showing a very small part of my firearms collection posted on the general discussion forum last week. I may post more from my collection if there is any interest.

    Mark T. Christian
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  • Rebel_James
    Thanks for the quick replies.

    Mark, please post some more pics of your collection, especially your older US military weapons.



    "If they won't give us good terms, come back and we'll fight it out."
    -- Gen. James Longstreet
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  • MIKE WISKEY
    ALSO CHECK BACK ABOUT A YEAR IN THE AMRICAN RIFLEMAN, THEY HAD A VERY GOOD RIGHT-UP ON THESE. AS TO THE 'BLACK TIP' AMMO, THIS IS ARMOR PIERCING AND MAY OR MAY NOT BE 'CORROSIVE' (THERE IS NOTHING 'VERY' CORRSIVE; EITHER IT IS OR ISN'T). IF IT IS U.S. ISSUE AND DATED 55 OR LATER IT IS NOT. EITHER WAY IT IS GOOD SHOOTING AMMO, JUST WATCH YOUR BACK STOP.
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  • markm
    I wish I could find more info on this myself, so many of these rifles had the paint removed when they returned here. I do know that if it is in excellent condition, all correct, has the British proofs, and manufactured between early 1941 and early 1942 there is a good chance it is a lend lease garand.
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