makarov 9x18
J&G up in Prescott AZ is advertising this semi-auto pistol for $109.95 Some time ago I believe they had them for 89.95 and sold out. Is this a good addition to a gun collection/fun shooter or is it just a cheap gun being reproduced in some other country from the original manufacture? Same question on a Walther style PA63 9x18. $89.95Any buyer beware advise is greatly appreciated.
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I have a E.German Makarov which I enjoy carrying on trails and for finishing off over-active halibut, but I am not satisfied with the large molded grips that came with it or the pearce rubber wrap-arounds that I purchased later. Does anyone know of a slimmer set of grips that would be better for concealed carry?
Thanks.
Dewey
Dewey Jones0 -
Well, I don't know how it compares to the 9mm but it has 258 fps of knockdown power. This is not enough to legally hunt but I am very happy with my Russian Makarov. It is fun to shoot and the ammo is cheap.
Bruce0 -
Considering that the 9mm Luger is 9x19 and the makarov is 9x18 and the .380 acp is 9x17 you can see it's in the middle of 9mm auto cartridges. It wouldn't be considered optimal for a defense round, but it'll certianly be better than nothing. I'll be carrying a .380 as my "all the time" weapon when I can't conceal my 10mm. 0 -
My ol lady carries a 9x18 in the dash, a PA63, and BEAR makes a hollow point round that is one wicked defence round! They are fairly cheep, $8 a box I think but if you look at them you will see what I mean by wicked. You have to watch though because some guns will not feed them well. Her PA63 does and my buddies Makrov does. There again I had a Makrov that would not feed the first one but if you put a FMJ round in the mag first thenit would feed the BEAR HPs afterwards! I sold that one! One thing about BEAR or any Russian and Chinese ammo is that you need to clean the weapon after useing the ammo. It is a bit dirty!
Personally I carry a 45 auto for self defence but they cost quite a bit more than the Makrovs. The PA63 my ol lady carries cost me less than $100 dealer cost.
"we are but men... no more, no less..."0 -
The Bulgarian Makarov is an excellent value. Very reliable, accurate, I'd take it over the Walther PPK any day. 9x18 is about halfway between 9mm(x19) and .380(9x17). A very good compromise for a backup gun. If really wanted it in .380 however, there are conversion kits floating around. 0 -
Here is a great article C&P. I've bolded some of my favorite lines:
and a mild rebuttal from me: the local shops only carry two brands of Mak. ammo. The best stuff I had came with the gun, in little 20 round boxes, with a sealant around the primers and the same between the case and bullet...
Compared: The 9mm Makarov and .380 ACP By Chuck Hawks
The .380 Automatic Colt Pistol (9x17 or 9mm Kurz) cartridge was designed by John Browning and introduced in 1908 by Colt for their Pocket Automatic. It was an attempt to design a cartridge that will maximize the stopping power of a simple blowback operated semi-automatic pistol. It uses the same .355" diameter bullets as most other 9mm (.35 caliber) pistols, usually weighing about 85 to 102 grains.
The 9mm Makarov (9x18) is a later Russian attempt to do the same thing, and its ballistics are almost identical to the .380 ACP. The two cartridges even look alike, although they are not interchangeable. The 9x18 case is 1 millimeter longer than the .380 ACP (9x17) case. The Soviet Union and its satellites adopted the 9mm Makarov pistol and cartridge as the service standard after WW II.
Unlike the .380, however, the 9x18 uses a unique .364" diameter bullet, usually weighing 90 to 100 grains. I know of no other commercial cartridge that uses these bullets. The cartridge probably should have been named the "9.2x18" to avoid confusion.
The SAAMI pressure limit for the .380 ACP is 21,500 psi; for the 9x18 the pressure limit is 24,100 psi. It is therefore not surprising that the performance of the two cartridges is very similar.
There is any number of excellent .380 pistols on the market, from the expensive Walther PP ("Police Pistol") to the inexpensive Raven. The Russian Baikal IJ-70 (a civilian version of the Makarov service pistol) was chambered for either the .380 ACP or the 9mm Makarov cartridge.
The Baikal IJ-70, Walther PP, and Beretta Cheetah series are all medium frame duty sidearms. But perhaps the most popular class of .380 pistols are pocket pistols such as the famous Walther PPK. Pocket pistols are widely carried by civilians with concealed carry permits and off duty police officers. As a class they represent the smallest and lightest practical auto pistols for self-defense.
The selection of 9x18 pistols is essentially limited to the Makarov service pistol. The Makarov pistol is basically a Russian copy of the Walther PP. Makarov pistols manufactured in various Eastern European countries are still available, although production of the Russian Baikal IJ-70 has been discontinued. Most Makarov type pistols are chambered for the 9x18, and are the only commonly encountered vehicle for this cartridge.
The 9x18 Makarov pistol (at least in well made examples) is a fine weapon, but .380 pistols are produced by many manufacturers in dozens of models at many price points. This gives the .380 a commanding advantage in pistols.
The ballistics of the 9x18 and .380 ACP cartridges are comparable. In the U.S. Federal, Hornady, and Speer offer factory loads for the 9x18. These use American Boxer primers. In addition, military surplus ammunition comes from the various former eastern block nations. The technicians at Speer chronographed various lots of imported military surplus ammunition and found that, on average, it gave a 95 grain FMJ bullet a muzzle velocity of about 970 fps from a Makarov pistol. Foreign made 9mm Makarov ammunition uses Berdan primers and cannot be reloaded on standard American equipment.
Practically every manufacturer who loads pistol ammunition loads .380 ACP, giving the .380 a big advantage in commercial factory loads. In the U.S. this includes Black Hills, Federal, Hornady, Magtech, PMC, Remington, Speer, and Winchester. The .380 is also widely loaded in Europe and elsewhere. Federal loads for both cartridges, and their loads are representative, so I will use them for comparison purposes.
As loaded by Federal the .380 ACP delivers a 95 grain FMJ bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 960 fps with 190 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy (ME). The equivalent Federal load for the 9x18 drives a 90 grain FMJ bullet at a MV of 990 fps with ME of 205 ft. lbs.
Far better for personal protection are modern JHP bullets. In .380 Federal loads a 90 grain Hi-Shok JHP bullet at a MV of 1000 fps and ME of 200 ft. lbs.
In the 9x19 a 90 grain Hi-Shok JHP bullet is loaded to a MV of 990 fps and ME of 195 ft. lbs. These figures were developed in a 4" barrel, and represent the performance of the cartridges from a compact service pistol like an IJ-70 or PP.
The trajectories of these .380 and 9x18 loads are virtually identical. The mid-range rise of both loads using the Federal 90 JHP bullet is 1.2" over 50 yards.
Marshal and Sanow found in their stopping power study that the .380 Federal 90 grain JHP was a 69% one shot stopper in actual street shootings. I don't have figures for the Federal 9x18 load, but it should be identical. Clearly there is virtually no ballistic difference between the 9x18 and .380 APC. Anyone comparing the two cartridges will have to look elsewhere for differences.
Not many shooters bother to reload either .380 or 9x18. For those that do, Hornady, Sierra, and Speer supply .364" bullets to reloaders. Bullet weights for the 9mm Makarov are 90, 95, and 100 grains, and reloaders can essentially duplicate the factory loads.
Since the .380 uses standard 9mm (.355") diameter bullets, the bullet selection is much larger. However, due to the limited case capacity of the cartridge, the best results will usually be achieved with bullets in the 90 to 100 grain range. Again, reloaders can duplicate the ballistics of the factory loads. Reloadable cases, of course, are much more available in .380 than in 9x18.
In conclusion, there is nothing to choose between the ballistics of the two cartridges. The difference is in the availability and variety of ammunition and pistols. In these areas the .380 ACP is far superior to the 9mm Makarov. Anyone contemplating the purchase of a pistol chambered for one of these two cartridges would be wise to go with a model in .380 ACP if it is available. For readers desiring more information about either cartridge there are articles about both on the Handgun Information Page.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_9x18_380.htm0 -
Interesting article above. However, my guess is that it is somewhat dated because there is all kinds of 9 X 18 ammo available today for the Makarov. I have hollow point from Speer for my Russian 9 X 18 Makarov. I don't "plunk" with it but use it when I carry for self -defense. I use low cost Russian ammo for plunking. 0 -
Today there are several manufacturers of high quality/performance self defense ammo in 9x18
If you need to carry a smaller pistol, for whatever the reason, learn to fire it accurately at distances that are typical of self defense ranges (1 to 7 yards) and use premium defensive loads.
When selecting ammo, make sure that it will feed well in your pistol because that $15-20 box of cartridges won't do a darn thing for you if it won't feed.
Lastly, buy the best gun in your budget range for self defense and ensure that it is well maintained. I advocate that people fire their carry weapons at least once a month and that at least one mag. or cylinder load be their carry load.
If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!0 -
I think there are some differences in quality as far as country of origin, the Russian seemingly the nicest and of course now most rare to find. The Bulgarian and Polish seem fairly well made and dang it, if I hadn't already laid out a lot of green for the Sig 230 I now have I think I would have(might get one yet) saved my money. It wouldn't have been the comm. block side arm this long if it failed them (consider a lot of burly, p.o.ed ruskies giving their C.O.'s an attitude adjustment). It has a very nice, flat profile and as said resembles the pp and ppk's.
Ammo most of the time won't be at the local hardware or discount store but more and more gun shops seem to have various flavors of ammo on hand.0 -
You must understand the difference between a Makarov pistol, and a pistol that shoots Makarov ammo. Real Makarov pistols were only made in Russia, Bulgaria, China, and East Germany (possibly also North Korea, but this is speculative.). All are well made, but Russian military models and East German models are the most highly regarded.
That aside, many other pistols were made to use 9x18 ammo. The Hungarians made a variety of them, and the cheapest and most common you will now find is the PA-63. This is a slight variant on the Walther PPK design, and can be made to shoot well. The Czechs make one as well, the CZ-83, with a unique polygonal barrel (like a Glock). Poland's M64 and its later variants also fire 9x18, but they are not particularly popular among shooters.
Hope this helps!
"Go to Lakedaemon, stranger passing by;
And say there, that in obedience to her law, here we lie"0 -
45 you relly got some good advice i can't add any its a good dependable gun for the money.
rusty10
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