Casting Bullets
My local bullet maker is no longer producing the bullets I need for SASS competition, and my supply is good for now. But when I run low, I will have to start casting my own, what I would like to know is where to start.
calibers 45 Colt, .45/70 Govt
calibers 45 Colt, .45/70 Govt
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Lots of tricks, but first, secure a mould. Get a copy of Lymans' GUIDE TO CAST BULLETS. Read up on the procedure and then add equipment as needed. Everything but the mould fits into the "nice to have" catagory.
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour0 -
With all due respect to p3, one *does* need much more than a mould unless Rumplestiltskin has taken up residence . . . . [;)]
You will need some means to heat the lead alloy for pouring. You can go cheap with a simple pot and use a stove top / torch with a pouring ladle. I don't recommend this if you plan to cast a large number of bullets. Casting beside the stove is certain to make your significant other unhappy. No matter how careful you are, inevitably there will be a splatter at some point, and if a droplet of hot lead hits the floor or anything not impervious to very high heat, the scorch mark will be there until the flooring / table is replaced. Second problem, and more important long term, is that the heating process will release some lead in gaseous form. Excellent ventilation is a must. The solution to this will vary depending on your property and climate. Some in warm climates do it outdoors. Others have things set up in an isolated area with good ventilation. Personally, I have a heavy duty exhaust fan immediately over my casting bench. For moderate needs, there are several good electrically heated pots which allow good control on alloy temperature. These are also bottom pour, which avoids the dross which will be on top of the liquid lead and can contaminate a hand-poured bullet. If you *really* get into it, there are bullet casting machines which the professionals use. These start around a grand, but man you can really turn out some bullets.
Another point on location. It absolutely must be dry!! One drop of water into / on the liguid alloy will instantly vaporize, bursting outward and causing droplets of lead to spray about. This can be at best a problem, at worst cause serious injury. For the same reason, keep the casting operation far away from your reloading. A stray primer or bit of powder will result in a spectacular OOOOPS! Be sure any material you melt is dry! You have to refresh the pot as you cast, else you run out of alloy. I learned the hard way that this can be the source of liquid introduction. Wasn't good. Since then, I've always cast ingots of alloy using a plumber's pot (outside) to melt large quantities of alloy, then used known clean, dry, material for the actual casting operation. This will also minimize the cleaning / fluxing of alloy (see below) while casting bullets.
You will need a supply of alloy. I've scrounged lead / alloy wherever I could for mumble years. And now that I'm moving, I have to either sell or scrap literally tons. Even for SASS shooting, you will want something slightly harder than pure lead. Lyman #2 alloy, with tin and a tiny amount of antimony, is a good all round choice IMHO. You can buy this in ingots (expensive) or create it yourself.
You will need handles for the mould(s). Be aware that handles usually are *not* interchangeable between manufacturers, so don't obtain RCBS handles for a Lyman mould, etc.
You absolutely must have a good pair of leather gloves. Mine are actually high temperature inorganic which I scrounged from a former employer, but you don't need such overkill. You need safety glasses!!!! REPEAT: YOU NEED SAFETY GLASSES. I SAY AGAIN: YOU MUST ABSOLUTELY USE SAFETY GLASSES!!! Inevitably, the lead is going to splatter at some point. You can recover from a burn on your skin, but the loss of an eye is irreversible. The manuals will also counsel you to wear pants, boots and long sleeve shirts. This is not the idle chatter of the liability avoidance manual. Sooner or later, you will be very happy you followed this procedure. But if an infrequent second degree burn doesn't phase you . . . .
You will need some sort of device to tap the joint of the handles to cause the bullets to drop free of the mould. A hardwood hammer handle or soft face hammer resistant to heat will do the trick. While solid, the bullets are still relatively soft when dropped from the mould. You will need a piece of wool carpet where the bullets will land when you drop them from the handles. Don't use plastic / artificial fiber types . . . the residual heat in the bullets will melt these materials. Some advocate dropping the bullets into water to harden them. It works. I don't recommend this, as I think the danger of having some water splash into a mould or pot outweighs the advantage. If I want a harder bullet, I use a harder alloy. And for SASS shooting, I would believe the harder alloys would actually handicap accuracy, as you are limited to BP velocities and the harder alloys require greater pressure to "upset" and fill the bore.
It is less expensive to shoot a plain base bullet, but I prefer a gas check design when available because the gas check protects the base of the bullet from erosive gases (better accuracy) while the edge pushing down the bore seems to lessen the amount of leading.
The giants of Victorian era target shooting used bullets "as cast." They also jumped through so many hoops on their rifle shooting it pains me to think of it. The results were amazing, but you won't have time to do this in SASS and the firearms are far different. So you should size the bullets. You must lube them anyway, and while this can be done by hand, the fastest way is a lubri-sizer which sizes the slug and presses lube into the grooves. The more lube grooves, generally the less crud in the barrel. The standard NRA formula 50/50 beeswax/??? (escapes me at the moment) has worked so well for me I've never bothered with the newer, more high tech, types. Again, for SASS, it will be more than adequate. Along with the lubri-sizer, you will need the sizing die and a top punch which matches the configuration of the bullet nose. "Common wisdom" for decades held that bullets should be sized .001" to .003" over nominal bore diameter and I've always had good luck with this. The modern thinking is that one should size closer to bore diameter because of the better tolerances. Whatever. I have several modern handguns which, if they had voices, would beg to differ. The point is that you will likely need to experiment with more than one sizing die to find the diameter which produces the best accuracy in your particular firearm.
You will also need a candle. Use this to add soot to the cavity (ies) of the mould. There are modern replacements. I've used them. I've seen no improvement over the cheap low tech approach. The soot helps the bullets drop free. THIN coating, please.
For best accuracy, weigh your bullets to be sure you have no voids or other hidden defects. Be absolutely ruthless in visual inspections. The manuals will advise the corrective measures to take if a certain type of defect occurs consistently, but cull any bullet with rounded edges, voids of any size, smeared sprues, etc. These can go right back into the pot.
You must flux the alloy periodically while casting. This keeps the alloy consistent. You can use small chunks of parafin for this and there are modern powders for the same purpose. The procedures will be in the manual. For manual casting with an electrical pot, I recommend two or more double cavity moulds used in sequence. Once the mould is up to temperature and casting consistently and you have mastered the techniques, you'll find you actually have to let the mould rest a bit or the bullets will be "frosted" from extra heat and the sprue starts to smear. Alternating hot moulds will allow you to make the most of your time. I've never been impressed with the gang moulds. It takes so long to bring them up to a consistent mould temperature across the four to ten cavities and those suckers get awful heavy in the process. At the height of my casting, I could "juggle" as many as six single / double cavity moulds and produce 95+% good results without the fatigue and frustration of a large gang mould. If you do decide on a gang mould, JMHO, but the four cavity design is the largest which can be managed effectively. I had some Lyman "Arsenal" moulds (seven cavities) and some H&G moulds with as many as ten cavities which came to me in a large purchase. Nothing wrong with the moulds, but for me the time and effort necessary to bring them into operating rythym was never worth it. I could cast more good product using the smaller moulds.
Store the moulds, with the last casting in them, in a dry area - I keep mine in ammo cans packed with dessicant. Even with such precautions, you may some day have some slight rust (well, if you use aluminum moulds, no, but my opinion of aluminum blocks is pretty low - while they heat up faster, the few specimens I've tried were not suitable for heavy use). Some bronze wool or a typewriter eraser pencil will do a great job of cleaning this up - do not use more abrasive substances unless you've exhausted all other possibilities. I think I'd try some Blue Wonder if this happens in the future. Be sure any and all chemicals are completely removed from your moulds before putting the first drop of lead into them - burning off the protective oils, etc. will leave contaminants in the metal pores and it will be a long, frustrating, labor to clean this up by simply casting bullets.
Casting bullets is more of an art than reloading, but when one shoots well with bullets one cast oneself loaded into one's own handloads, there is little more satisfying. It takes practice - not a lot - and some patience, but the results can be amazing.
Sorry for the length of the reply, but you did ask! [:D]
Good luck!
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)0 -
Iconoclast,
Excellent, thorough post!
Best.0 -
A Coleman stove outside supplies heat and plenty of fresh air.
Any good pot will melt the lead
A tablespoon makes a good ladle
A hammer handle knocks the spru
A coffee can (sitting on the ground) full of water with a washcloth in the bottom catches the hot bullets and hardens them.
Any tire shop can supply lead and metal eye ointment tubes, etc., supply the tin.
The reference book I mentioned gives all the warnings and cautions about eyes, feet, nose etc. And tells exactly how to tailor the requirements to your assets.
Life is complicated enough don't you think. I prefer to think to upcomplicate it.
He did just ask where to start right?
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour0 -
As a side note for advanced casters, if you want really hard bullets that don't turn that dull gray after a while, do what I do. Add a little silver solder to the mix. Negates having to mix tin or antimony at all (There is still some antimony in the wheel weights anyway).
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour0 -
p3, yep, he did ask "to start" and your set-up *will* work. But OTOH - & JMHO - if he's planning on producing bullets for SASS competition, he's going to run into production bottle necks almost immediately. In my own case, I started with pretty much the set-up you describe and bought an electric pot after my first session. Different strokes . . . .
My answer was not intended to be a comprehensive reply - although I did go into a lot of detail - and your second post provides some very good ideas I did not include and one I did not know (scrounge that I am, I'd never realized I was throwing away good tin all these years with those metal tubes). As to the safety precautions . . . well, we all know how carefully most American men read that section of the directions, me included! [:D] I figured it wouldn't hurt to emphasize these a bit while - hopefully - I had his attention.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)0 -
P3: Did you mean "silver solder" which melts at about 1200 degrees F.
Or low temp silver bearing solder which melts at about 460 degrees,
such as Sta-Brite solder? Last I looked Sta- brite was about $38.00
per roll for 1 lb.. We use both in the refrigeration trade but for different things.0 -
Only thing I'll add, is I've learned a lot from the above, but it applies to everything except black powder guns, which some cowboy shooters use. If cap and ball, I believe the reccommended IS pure lead. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by joeaf1911a1
P3: Did you mean "silver solder" which melts at about 1200 degrees F.
Or low temp silver bearing solder which melts at about 460 degrees,
such as Sta-Brite solder? Last I looked Sta- brite was about $38.00
per roll for 1 lb.. We use both in the refrigeration trade but for different things.
Joe,
I have a machinst that traded me about 25 lbs of block silver solder. It takes a bit longer to melt than lead wheel weights. I usually run the pot around 800 degrees. It's tough to scratch with a nail and makes some real hard bullets, no gas check needed on slightly (1400fps) supersonic rounds. It only takes a little silver to achieve the good results too.
I try to salvage the spent bullets also to conserve the silver ( I use all the spent bullets I can scavenge, back into the pot!)
Hope this answered your question.
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour0 -
Teak,
You are the expert. I once melted lead of various sources to fire my 1866 Trapdoor. I needed to dross the crapola and used surfboard wax=
parafine. Instant flare and I lost half of my beard. If I was not using full face mask-would have lost my vision. Bee's wax would have been used but I was sttoopid and grabbed the only wax I had available.
The melting pot is still in my shop and I will never attempt to use it again. 1010 -
Good thing your gasoline can wasn't closer huh? I make no apoligies for my knowledge of how to improvise. I wrongly assume sometimes that the people who post here are above average intellegence and will realize if they are getting in over their head on a procedure.
The procedures I relate are not always Murphy proof and must be used with knowledge and understanding. Nothing I will pass on is untried by me and significant cautions not readily apparent will be so stated.
101, your accident would have happened anyway. I would consider it readily apparent for someone not to place their face over hot molten metal.0 -
101, while I appreciate the compliment, I don't consider myself an "expert" in any field, but rather someone with varying amounts of experience in the topics to which I reply. I certainly didn't mean to ruffle any feathers with my response, although it appears this may have happened in this case (and for which I apologize if so). I tend to go into extended detail based on my own philosophy, personality and life experiences, but that doesn't mean I know any more or contribute any more than a party who chooses not to reply or whose reply is more sparsely phrased - quite the contrary, in fact. I see the replies in this forum to be a gestalt intended to aid the thread originator from a variety of life experiences, the contributions of all forming a better response in toto than that of any single individual. In following this thread, I learned some new things myself . . . and that is the beauty of this site - we all benefit.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)0 -
iconoclast,
You did not ruffle my feathers sir. My original post was (if read) was correct. I recommended a very good book and made the point that the only storebought item of a "must have" nature was the mould.
I think your subsequent post bore that out as you stated you started that way too.
It amazes me that people with nothing valuable to imput have to just run their know-nothing mouths because of jealousy, stupidity and/or ignorance.
For someone just starting out, nothing beats a good book that outlines theory and procedures and I am sure you will agree, the Lyman book is one of the best.0 -
Check out Lymans Casting kit. It contains a lot of what you need to get started (minus moulds)for about $125. 0 -
p3, while one can scrounge most of the very basic gear to start, solely to pick nits, I would argue mold handles would be part of the original "store-bought" equipment. I'm glad my comments did not upset you, as I certainly intended nothing of the kind; I see far too many such exchanges happen on line, needlessly, and I do my best to avoid them. There are a few - damn few - "experts" here, but a *lot* of people with hundreds of man years of experience between them. Rarely do I participate in such an exchange without learning something new, as I did from you. I think any differences in our answers realistically can be ascribed to differences in our approaches and interpretation of "start" in the context of the needs of the original poster. I don't see a conflict in our comments at all. A good manual - and no one has written a better one than those offered by Lyman and the NRA - is key to success and safety. I didn't mention it because you already had. The only other statement which you've made with which I would take minor issue is the comment about "any good pot" - my very first foray, producing lead soldiers, not bullets, resulted in molten aluminum and one heck of a mess. Maybe it wasn't "good," but my mother, if she were still alive, would argue the point [:D]. Also, any pot used for melting lead should not, in the future, be used for food preparation, to avoid ingestion of lead.
Too bad you are so far away. I'm sure you would enjoy "playing" with the two tons or so of lead and alloy I've scrounged over the years . . . I have to dispose of it before I move and I bet with you it would have a productive home. I'm going to take my pure tin, 50/50 solder and the like . . . maybe even my 500 pounds of linotype, but that still leaves 3000 plus pounds of pure lead, purified wheel weight and #2 alloy. Unless I find someone in New England who wants this material, the scrap metal guys are going to make out like bandits. [:(!]
Take care, amigo, and thank you for the insights you provided. At least one person here profited from your efforts.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain)0 -
Icon,
With that much lead, surely there is someone fairly local that could use it. I would do an online search for bullet makers and or swaging outfits.
With that much alloyed metal, it would be worth sending a truck.
Best,
Mike
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour0 -
The only thing I can add to iconoclast's advice is. If you are shooting in competition alot, buy a mold with as many cavities as you can afford. I shoot cas occasionally during the summer months. When I cast 38's for my Navy conversion, I run 2 Lee production pots and a four cavity swc mold, I switch off to a 2 cavity wadcutter mold when the four gets too hot. (I also play bullseye sometimes in the winter.) You can have the second pot melting down and getting to temp while you draw off the first one. I have a couple big casting sessions a year for my handgun bullets. Several small ones when casting for my rifles.
Woods
"If god had not meant for them to be sheared, he would not have made them sheep."
Eli Wallach as Calvera
TheMagnificent Seven0
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