BELGIAN MILITARY REVOLVER 7-shot .32-20WCF
1. belgian SA/DA revolver
2. .32-20 WCF
3. 7 shot cylinder / swings out to the left
4. oval / lozenge style full length closed flutes
5. 4 1/2" round BBL with full length sighting rib
6. 4 groove rifling / left hand cocentric twist
7. large pinned 1/2 blade front sight
8. raised V-notch rear front sight (integral to frame)
9. 2-piece rebounding hammer w/ pinned "floating" firing pin checkered spur
10. "STAR PATTERN" 7 point ejector with brass round knob
11. large cylinder lever / latch forward of cylinder (spring loaded)
12. 2 position saftey lever on left of frame
13. lanyard loop ring / swivel on grip frame
14. 2 piece checkered bakalite grip panels "knight on horseback shooting a long musket at a giant serpant" rondals
both panels missing small pieces / chipped
15. TOP OF BBL: ".32-20 WINCHESTER" on sight rib plane
16. BOTTOM OF BBL: "BELGIUM" & "2"
17. LANYARD RING SWIVEL: "2"
18. RIGHT HAND BBL: "R"(UNDER A CROWN) & "U"(UNDER A STAR)
19. CYL. LATCH & FORWARD CYL. FACE: "2"
20. REAR CYL. FACE: "L"(UNDER A CROWN) & "U"(UNDER A STAR) & "THE LIEGE OVAL AND CROWN PROOF"
21. 9 1/2" OAL - 5 1/2" OAH
22. blued finish with silver hammer and trigger
23. NRA VERY GOOD condition / 70% overall gun
this piece was ment fore military service. it borrows strongly from early PIEPER non gas seal revolvers, and transitional and late PRYSSE revolvers. the rebounding hammer combined with a manual 2-position saftey, and the 7-shot .32-20 WCF chambering, coupled with the lanyard ring make it an oddball item. there is no FORCING CONE, instead the forward cylinder face mates almost perfectly were the BBL travels through the frame. it locks up tight, index`s perfectly, and the timing is correct. the saftey works, and exept for the grips, its on nice shape.
whats it worth??? when made(pre-1900)??? any collectors intrest??? any info or feedback??? best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
2. .32-20 WCF
3. 7 shot cylinder / swings out to the left
4. oval / lozenge style full length closed flutes
5. 4 1/2" round BBL with full length sighting rib
6. 4 groove rifling / left hand cocentric twist
7. large pinned 1/2 blade front sight
8. raised V-notch rear front sight (integral to frame)
9. 2-piece rebounding hammer w/ pinned "floating" firing pin checkered spur
10. "STAR PATTERN" 7 point ejector with brass round knob
11. large cylinder lever / latch forward of cylinder (spring loaded)
12. 2 position saftey lever on left of frame
13. lanyard loop ring / swivel on grip frame
14. 2 piece checkered bakalite grip panels "knight on horseback shooting a long musket at a giant serpant" rondals
both panels missing small pieces / chipped
15. TOP OF BBL: ".32-20 WINCHESTER" on sight rib plane
16. BOTTOM OF BBL: "BELGIUM" & "2"
17. LANYARD RING SWIVEL: "2"
18. RIGHT HAND BBL: "R"(UNDER A CROWN) & "U"(UNDER A STAR)
19. CYL. LATCH & FORWARD CYL. FACE: "2"
20. REAR CYL. FACE: "L"(UNDER A CROWN) & "U"(UNDER A STAR) & "THE LIEGE OVAL AND CROWN PROOF"
21. 9 1/2" OAL - 5 1/2" OAH
22. blued finish with silver hammer and trigger
23. NRA VERY GOOD condition / 70% overall gun
this piece was ment fore military service. it borrows strongly from early PIEPER non gas seal revolvers, and transitional and late PRYSSE revolvers. the rebounding hammer combined with a manual 2-position saftey, and the 7-shot .32-20 WCF chambering, coupled with the lanyard ring make it an oddball item. there is no FORCING CONE, instead the forward cylinder face mates almost perfectly were the BBL travels through the frame. it locks up tight, index`s perfectly, and the timing is correct. the saftey works, and exept for the grips, its on nice shape.
whats it worth??? when made(pre-1900)??? any collectors intrest??? any info or feedback??? best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
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"The Knight on Horseback" seems to suggest a "Bayard" revolver made by the Henri Pieper Co. of Liege.
BUT, there trademark was different, it was a "Knight on Horseback Holding a Lance" with the word "Bayard" underneath.
My WAG is that you have a late 19th, early 20th Century knock-off of a Bayard. If it has Belgian proofs it was made in Belgium. If it doesn't have proofs it was made in Spain.
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Sounds quite a bit like a Bayard revolver produced by Pieper & Co. in Herstal. The examples I've seen over the years were all in 7.62 or 8mm, but the description you provide seems spot on for a Bayard and I'm sure many other calibers were available. There was also a Saint George model revolver produced by W. Grah in Leige which is nearly identical, but has a horse mounted knight which is rather different in appearence to the Bayard and carries the W.G. trademark over the cylinder release. Where do you find these guns Mike? I'd hesitate to pass judgement on this revolver until a few other experts give their own I.D. opinions as this area is not my specialty.
Mark T. Christian0 -
is there anyone who makes grips???
if sent the grip panels, could someone fabricate replacement wood panels from the profile and dimensions of the originals???
i would like to have some wood panels made up, to complete the gun. i intend on shooting it. my chances of finding a set at a gun show aproach ZERO.
anyone have the skills to duplicate these panels, with a smooth outside finish??? it would be graet to swap out the chipped panels.
i have drawn the same conclusions as to the similarity between the logos of this gun, and those used by BAYARD, and PIEPER. i am also familiar with the "SLAYING OF THE DRAGON / SERPENT" logo mentioned above. i am not familiar enough with these pieces to make a final judgement call at this time. its not only the logo, but the simularity in design, function, and featues that point me toward PIEPER, and BAYARD (CLEMENT too.).
the gun came out of an estate lot brought in for sale / diposal here at the shop. i was initialy intruiged by its design, and the 7-shot .32-20 WCF chambering. i decided to take t home, along with a K.KALES 1944 TURKISK MAUSER (24"BBL/8mm).
i will attempt to post pics, later in the week. the gun called to me, and i have enough experiance / knowlegde to realize its an interesting piece, as opposed to a poor made copy.
more markings...
LEFT HAND GRIP FRAME: "TF" in a rectangle
RIGHT HAND GRIP FRAME: "2" & "J.F.M.B.?." cannot make out the last letter. possible JES`UE FABRIQUE MANUFACTURE BAYARD...???
i tend to be atrracted to oddballs and orphans. please help. best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
If you don't mind another wild a*s guess, I believe your revolver was specifically manufactured for sale here in the states.
This is due to ( 2 ) factors.
1), The country of origin "Belgium" on the barrel. This became a legal requirement for all imports in the early 1890's.
2), The chambering for and prominent marking of "32-20 Winchester". If made for the European or English trade it would have been chambered for one of the Metric/English revolver cartridges normally used and/or sold in those countries. To the best of my knowledge the 32-20 was primarily used in North America.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mrmike08075
is there anyone who makes grips???
if sent the grip panels, could someone fabricate replacement wood panels from the profile and dimensions of the originals???
i would like to have some wood panels made up, to complete the gun. i intend on shooting it. my chances of finding a set at a gun show aproach ZERO.
anyone have the skills to duplicate these panels, with a smooth outside finish??? it would be graet to swap out the chipped panels.
i have drawn the same conclusions as to the similarity between the logos of this gun, and those used by BAYARD, and PIEPER. i am also familiar with the "SLAYING OF THE DRAGON / SERPENT" logo mentioned above. i am not familiar enough with these pieces to make a final judgement call at this time. its not only the logo, but the simularity in design, function, and featues that point me toward PIEPER, and BAYARD.
the gun came out of an estate lot brought in for sale / diposal here at the shop. i was initialy intruiged by its design, and the 7-shot .32-20 WCF chambering. i decided to take t home, along with a K.KALES 1944 TURKISK MAUSER (24"BBL/8mm).
i will attempt to post pics, later in the week. the gun called to me, and i have enough experiance / knowlegde to realize its an interesting piece, as opposed to a poor made copy.
more markings...
LEFT HAND GRIP FRAME: "TF" in a rectangle
RIGHT HAND GRIP FRAME: "2" & "J.F.M.B.?." cannot make out the last letter. possible JES`UE FABRIQUE MANUFACTURE BAYARD...???
i tend to be atrracted to oddballs and orphans. please help. best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
Just noticed that you mentioned shooting it.
I would slug the barrel first. Just because it's marked 32-20 doesn't mean that the groove dia. of the barrel is .311, what the U S barrels were.
Lot of those guild made guns were chambered for cartridges as diverse as the 7.5 Swiss Army to the 8mm Lebel with the same barrel. They just changed the markings. They weren't to fussy about that kind of stuff. As the normal ammo of that period was a soft lead slug, propelled by a black powder charge, they kind of hoped it would expand to fill the rifleing.0 -
MARK CHRISTIAN is correct. i found a picture of the gun in ZHUK`s "ENCYCLOPEDIA OF HANDGUNS". it is positivly a "ST GEORGE" model manufactured by WILLIAM GRAH of LIEGE.
i still have a few issues to resolve...
1. whats is worth???(i cannot find a value listing for this model, or maker).
2. what NORTH AMERICAN constabulary, police force, or group would have used this gun???
3. what time frame for DOM???(pre-1900).
4. the bore is the correct AMERICAN standard diameter for the .32-20 WCF. i have soft point, pyrodex equiv., light loads. i intend to fire it...any opinions???
5. WHO CAN REPRODUCE THE GRIPS FOR ME???(out of wood).
please help me determine value, age, etc...
any info on the maker, etc...
best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
Certainly Marks correct!!! Did You expect otherwise?...and he's a true Gentleman to boot....
Captain Kirk, Tech Staff0 -
CAPT.
i can find virtualy no information on this gun, or its maker. ZHUK had a picture, but only one sentance for a description. W.B. WHITE mentions him in passing, grouping his work with that of CLEMEMT, PIEPER, NAGANT, and BAYARD.
i am looking for some historical info on the gun, or its maker. i have no clue as to the value...
someone must have a referance book that mentions him. i hate not knowing, or being able to complete my file. best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
Is a photo avaible. This is very valauble info. Thanks.
Brian Ostro.
I am committed to the sovereignty of our great Republic and Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour
member: NRA, John Birch Society, American Numismatic Association, United States Chess Federation.0
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