Serial number lookup
I have a model 94 winchester .30-30 serial number 1101150
Does anyone know the year of manufacture and aprox. value assuming it is in avg. condition?
Does anyone know the year of manufacture and aprox. value assuming it is in avg. condition?
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looks like 1940
http://armscollectors.com/sn/windates.htm0 -
thanks! 0 -
Serial number 1101150 was made several years prior to 1940... most likely it was produced in late 1937.
I really wish that all you other fellows that answer questions on this forum would STOP using the Winchester serial number information you find on armscollectors.com (and all of the other websites you know of). I have stated this MANY times before... NONE of the currently published books or lists are correct for most of the Winchester models, especially the Model 1894/94![V]
Bert H.
Real Men use a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!0 -
I would submit that the guys are doing their best to help given the information popularly available. These serial number charts (yes, including Madis - maybe particularly Madis) often do not make a distinction between actual date of manufacture, date of assembly, and/or recorded date received in warehouse as a finished gun. True Winchester CCFCP's (Coo-Coo For Cocoa Puffs) make a huge distinction between those dates, but for the average Winchester owner the difference between a DOM of 1937 and 1940 would be minimal - prewar/modern is prewar/modern after all.
[:D][:p]
Scrappy Doo sleeps with the fishes.0 -
Bert,
What is a good reference for Winchester serial numbers vs date mmanufactured or shipped? Do the factory records allow for the distinction between sent to assembly, assembly completed, packed, or shipped. Did Winchester assemble the guns in serial number sequence? Not all companies did. I have no idea how Winchester operated but I would speculate that any hard and fast rules and/or cut off dates for any year or event probably have exceptions so the only true answer would have to come from the factory records.
For example Smith & Wesson manufactured the frame in serial nnumber sequence but then stored the frames in storage until the made an assembly run of a particular model and variation. the guns in an assembly lot were not necessarily in serial number order or even close. The frames in the strorage area were not processed on a FIFO or LIFO manner. So the only accurate answer would have to come from the factory records. And in the case of Smith & Wesson there is no assemlby date but only a ship date.
Other companies probably did assemble their guns in approximate serial number order - at least when the frames were sent to assembly. In know from the factory records that High Standard did but these records clearly shot that some guns were perhaps a problem since the packed date is not even close to the surrounding guns in teh same lot. This detail iis only available for High Standard guns for a limited time period. Only a Ship date is available for almost all guns. I say almost since there are guns in collectors hands that are open records in the factory books including some that are listed specifically in the Curios or Relics list. There are numerous instances of guns in the High Standard records where the gun shipped several years after the date its serial number peers were shipped. We can only speculate as to whether the guns was stuck in inventory or if it was made from old parts at a later date.
The problem as I see it is that collectors/ gun owners want to date their gun without the expense of a factory letter. Many sources are available that give this kind of data and some are terrible and some are not so bad but all should include a disclaimer that the charts are not always accurate and that only a factory letter can provide accurate data.
John Stimson, Jr.
www.histandard.info0 -
"(I really wish that all you other fellows that answer questions on this forum would STOP using the Winchester serial number information you find on armscollectors.com (and all of the other websites you know of). I have stated this MANY times before... NONE of the currently published books or lists are correct for most of the Winchester models, especially the Model 1894/94!)"
not a problem Bert H. i do know you are the resident Winchester expert ! so in the future I will expect to see you on here every day giving hard and fast answers to these guys questions0 -
Many of us are just doing the best we can with the information that's available. Depending on the makers manufacturing, numbering, and shipping practices, accruacy in record keeping, and other arcane matters in the universe of gun collecting.....sometimes it's just a ballpark estimate.
But.....it's the best we can do, and the alternative is to give no answer at all.0 -
quote:Originally posted by JohnStimson
Bert,
What is a good reference for Winchester serial numbers vs date mmanufactured or shipped? The Cody Firearms Museum, or for modern manufactured guns, call Winchester directly.
Do the factory records allow for the distinction between sent to assembly, assembly completed, packed, or shipped. No. The only information in the original factory ledgers is the "date received in warehouse" (which is considered by the BATF as the DOM), and the "Shipped date" (sold date).
Did Winchester assemble the guns in serial number sequence? Not all companies did. Winchester most definitely did NOT assemble them in serial number sequence.
I have no idea how Winchester operated but I would speculate that any hard and fast rules and/or cut off dates for any year or event probably have exceptions so the only true answer would have to come from the factory records. That is a very correct speculation. In my research, it seems that there are nearly as many exceptions as there are hard clean fast rules.
For example Smith & Wesson manufactured the frame in serial nnumber sequence but then stored the frames in storage until the made an assembly run of a particular model and variation. the guns in an assembly lot were not necessarily in serial number order or even close. The frames in the strorage area were not processed on a FIFO or LIFO manner. So the only accurate answer would have to come from the factory records. And in the case of Smith & Wesson there is no assemlby date but only a ship date. Again, Winchester was nearly identical in the way they assembled firearms.
Other companies probably did assemble their guns in approximate serial number order - at least when the frames were sent to assembly. In know from the factory records that High Standard did but these records clearly shot that some guns were perhaps a problem since the packed date is not even close to the surrounding guns in teh same lot. This detail iis only available for High Standard guns for a limited time period. Only a Ship date is available for almost all guns. I say almost since there are guns in collectors hands that are open records in the factory books including some that are listed specifically in the Curios or Relics list. There are numerous instances of guns in the High Standard records where the gun shipped several years after the date its serial number peers were shipped. We can only speculate as to whether the guns was stuck in inventory or if it was made from old parts at a later date.
The problem as I see it is that collectors/ gun owners want to date their gun without the expense of a factory letter. Many sources are available that give this kind of data and some are terrible and some are not so bad but all should include a disclaimer that the charts are not always accurate and that only a factory letter can provide accurate data. You have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head[^].
John Stimson, Jr.
www.histandard.info
Bert H.
Real Men use a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!0 -
quote:Originally posted by CountryGunsmith
I would submit that the guys are doing their best to help given the information popularly available. These serial number charts (yes, including Madis - maybe particularly Madis) often do not make a distinction between actual date of manufacture, date of assembly, and/or recorded date received in warehouse as a finished gun. True Winchester CCFCP's (Coo-Coo For Cocoa Puffs) make a huge distinction between those dates, but for the average Winchester owner the difference between a DOM of 1937 and 1940 would be minimal - prewar/modern is prewar/modern after all.
[:D][:p]
Scrappy Doo sleeps with the fishes.
I must admit that I am one of those CCFCP's [:0][^][:D]. I accept and believe your submitted comment... I guess that I get a bit too wound up about Winchester DOMs[:I]
Bert H.
Real Men use a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!0 -
quote:Originally posted by gskyhawk
Not a problem Bert H. i do know you are the resident Winchester expert ! so in the future I will expect to see you on here every day giving hard and fast answers to these guys questions
I appologize if I came across as an Arsehole[:I]. It most definitely was not my intention. I will do my best to check in on this forum several times per day though[:)].
Bert H.
Real Men use a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Xracer
Many of us are just doing the best we can with the information that's available. Depending on the makers manufacturing, numbering, and shipping practices, accruacy in record keeping, and other arcane matters in the universe of gun collecting.....sometimes it's just a ballpark estimate.
But.....it's the best we can do, and the alternative is to give no answer at all.
OK, I am getting lumps (deservedly) all over my noggin from the you "other" fellows[B)]... please accept my apology if I affended anyone[:I]
Bert H.
Real Men use a WINCHESTER Single-Shot!0 -
Nah, I'm a Winchester CCFCP too. (Short Rifles are my weakness.)
Scrappy Doo sleeps with the fishes.0 -
I certainly don't consider myself a Winchester expert and I don't live on this forum. But I've collected for 35 years and have my share of letters from the Cody museum. I certainly don't have as much faith in their information as some others seem to. I've had just too many errors in their letters. Some have been due to them looking it up wrong. One gun took me three tries before Cody got it right. Other errors have obviously been due to the way the information was recorded by Winchester, such as recording the caliber of a gun as one that model was never made in. I believe it was a pair of model 1873s that Madis found Winchester recorded as having the bolt handles turned down like a Mauser. Obviously a couple of Hotchkiss rifles got recorded in the 1873 book by error.
Another thing, almost always all you can get for dates out of Cody are the dates the gun was received into the warehouse and the date it was shipped. These dates can have little relation to when the gun was assembled or when the serial number was assigned to the receiver.
If somebody has better dates than Madis has let's get them into print so they are available to all of us. Until then, Madis did a good but not perfect job but it's the best we have so let's stop knocking him.0
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