back up cartridge
hey guys...im lookin to get a decent backup...ive been lookin at the keltec p3ats...i have a friend, former LEO, who carries a .40 and a .32 acp as a backup...he said that the .32 and .25 cartridges have better stopping bower than a .380...is this true?
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no, not true at all.
Weakest to strongest in this order:
.25, .22LR, .32, .380
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I agree with Ben
1 shot is all ya get so make it a " SUREKILL " (T/C Encore-/-Contender/ MATHEWS SWITCHBACK Shooter)0 -
quote:Originally posted by fishermanben
no, not true at all.
Weakest to strongest in this order:
.25, .22LR, .32, .380
For "small" calibers, I think it would go something like this (slashes indicate roughly equivalent power):
.22 short, .25ACP/.22LR, .32ACP, .380acp/.38 spl, .38+P/9mm, 9mm+P.
Comparisons between .25 and .22LR are often a bit misleading since the .22 is usually rated out of rifles, but the .25 out of pistols. .22LR does lose a lot of its pop when fired from a 2" barrelled pistol, and in fact doesn't do all that much better than .25ACP (though ammunition is both much cheaper and more readily available for .22).
Personally with really small guns available now in .380, I wouldn't pick anything smaller for a pocket gun, though.
Also Cannibus, if I remember correctly, you are in MA, which means that all of the nice modern small Kel Tecs, Kahr, and even the Rohrbaugh pistols are not MA compliant. Guns like this are extremely scarce in MA, and command exhorbitant prices if you can find them.
This is particularly ironic because Kahrs are made right here in Worcester MA!
In terms of pocket pistols, then, you might have luck with an airweight Smith .38 revolver. With some looking around you could find a subcompact Glock used, or possibly even a Colt .380 Mustang, but you'll pay through the nose for those.
There are MA compliant new production Seecamp pocket pistols, but again, those are rather expensive. I don't know if the .380 model is MA compliant, but that's the one I would go for if it were.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by fishermanben
no, not true at all.
Weakest to strongest in this order:
.25, .22LR, .32, .380
For "small" calibers, I think it would go something like this:
.22 short, .25ACP/.22LR, .32ACP, .380acp/.38 spl, .38+P/9mm, 9mm+P.
Comparisons between .25 and .22LR are often a bit misleading since the .22 is usually rated out of rifles, but the .25 out of pistols. .22LR does lose a lot of its pop when fired from a 2" barrelled pistol, and in fact doesn't do all that much better than .25ACP (though ammunition is both much cheaper and more readily available for .22).
Personally with really small guns available now in .380, I wouldn't pick anything smaller for a pocket gun, though if cost were no object, this one looks pretty intriguing (retail is something like $950 on these!). I'm sure the thing kicks like a mule:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_171_28/ai_n6123162
It weighs about twice what the Kel-Tec does.[:(]0 -
32,
380,
and 9mm
seem to be the most common.
I'm toying with the thought of a 22lr backup.
The way I see it, a 40gr 22lr HP is bad news.
Just not as bad as say a 45auto or 40S&W
"Better to carry a pistol and not need it than need a pistol and not have it." - Me
http://www.diamondbacktactical.com/0 -
quote:Originally posted by ATF
It [Rohrbaugh] weighs about twice what the Kel-Tec does.[:(]
Right. . .and at $985 each it also costs about THREE times as much as the Kel Tec too!
The main difference is that the Rohrbaugh takes full house 9mm which is significantly more powerful than .380. Whether or not its worth it is a whole other story, but if I thought there was a good chance I'd actually be firing the thing to defend myself, I'd pay the extra money for the better round no question.
Also, my understanding is that Kahr arms makes a microcompact 9mm that is size and weightwise pretty similar to the Rohrbaugh, but also has niceties like a slide stop, and will take +P ammo. (Haven't shot it *or* the Rohrbaugh, so I can't speak first hand about either one).
As I mentioned above in my edited post, its probably moot for Cannibus since there probably aren't any MA compliant Rohrbaugh pistols, microcompact Kahrs, or MA compliant Kel-Tec .380s either.
In fact right now there are **NO** new manufacture "pocket" pistols for legal sale in MA, and older MA compliant ones (like Colt .380s, or even crappy derringers and .25s) are hard to find and command high prices.
I think there is a loophole in the MA law where cops are allowed to get any pistol they want, so there may be a few of the better newer guns floating around within the state legally, but the chance of obtaining one if you are a civilian is probably pretty small.0 -
beantownshootah...own a s&w model 642 in .38 special and also a glock 29 in 10mm...my glock is my carry gun but its a bit bulky...i like my smith cuz its small but only 5 shots...and a PIA to relaod if it ever came down to a shoot out...i like the keltec because of the whole built in pants clip part and i just overall like semi autos...being from mass...isnt it true that i could buy one off a cop? i know the keltecs are available to leo only and i thought that i could buy one from a cop if he owned one...am i wrong? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by cannibus
beantownshootah...own a s&w model 642 in .38 special and also a glock 29 in 10mm...my glock is my carry gun but its a bit bulky...i like my smith cuz its small but only 5 shots...and a PIA to relaod if it ever came down to a shoot out...i like the keltec because of the whole built in pants clip part and i just overall like semi autos...being from mass...isnt it true that i could buy one off a cop? i know the keltecs are available to leo only and i thought that i could buy one from a cop if he owned one...am i wrong?
I think you are right and that there is a loophole that would let you legally buy one of these from a cop. . .that is, assuming that you can find a cop in MA who has one and is actually willing to sell you his. But unless you are good buddies with a cop who is willing to bend the rules a hair for you, you probably aren't going to find one of these, short of actually joining the police force yourself!
Assuming you did find one of these legally in MA, I think your premise is still probably false. As a civilian, the likelihood of you needing more than 5 shots in a defense situation is virtually nil. More likely than not you won't need more than one shot (if you need any at all).
If you really think you are likely to get into a shootout, the last thing you want to bring is some bitsy backup gun in .380! In that setting if you have to have "only" a pistol, you want a full sized, service high-cap gun with 12+ rounds of 9mm or greater (like your 10mm).
Smith holds 5 shots, Kel Tec holds 6 + 1 in the chamber. Main difference is that Smith's .38+P rounds are a lot more powerful than the .380. (350 foot pounds vs. 250 for max loads in each), and the Smith is a more reliable gun. Keltec is definitely lighter and easier to hide, that's for sure, but if you are going to go with a conventional holster carry anyway, I'd pick the extra reliability and greater power of the .38 over the .380 any day.
If you are worried about reloading, see above. Apart from that, the Kel Tec has no slide stop so assuming you did carry an extra mag it wiould still take you both hands to reload, and then you'll have to rack the slide (giving you only 6 more shots, not seven). Compared to reloading a .38 with a speedloader, it probably isn't really faster.0 -
I'd take either a G27, a Makarov, or a Charter Arms .44 Bulldog
Neo-Jedi Council
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Lets look at this for a second- the concept of a backup gun is that your primary is not working, or no longer in your possession, and you are in REALLY deep crap. Would suggest this is the time for reliability and stopping power at close range. I used to carry S&W Mdl 65, with a S&W Mdl 36 in a jacket pocket, loaded w/ Remington 95 gr JHP. Off duty, the Mdl 36. IF you shoot people with teeny tiny pistols, one day they will notice it, get mad, and hurt you. Of course, I had one paranoid friend (well, I don't know if paranoid is a correct term- he HAD been shot 3 times) that carried a Mdl 36 as packup, and a 2 shot 38 Spl derringer as backup backup. 0
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