AK-47 vs SKS
Here is a battle that has been eatting away at me. Which one is actualy better? I already have an SKS and love it to death, I am curious why is the AK more expensive and popular? They are somewhat based on the same platform, use the same ammo, and are both orgnialy from Russia. Whats you input?
Knightrider
Knightrider
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Different platforms, different operating systems. Each of them have their advantages. The AK is quicker to reload and has select-fire ability, the SKS is usually a little more accurate and has less openings to collect dirt and mud. The AK, however, will function even if the mud gets in.
Love them Beavers
Keeping the "Hairy League" in check since 19480 -
The SKS was basically a stop gap design for the Soviet Union designed in 1943 after the soviet union adpoted the 7.62x39mm rimless cartridge.
Sergi Gavrilovich Simonov converted a prototype SKS41 (which was never adopted by the Russian Army), which fired the 7.62x25mm pistol cartridge, to the new 7.62x39mm and came up with the new SKS"45" in which prototypes were fielded against germans in 1944. It was adopted officially in 1945.
That is basically the only reason the SKS even exists as the AK47 wasn't designed by Kalishnakov until 1947 and entered production in 1951. The Russian production of the SKS ended in 1955. The chinese picked it up in 1956 to support it's new regieme.
SKS is a fun rifle, but it's not really all that great. It's reliable, and has a reasonable combat accuracy at 100-200 yards, so does an AK47.
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As kingjoey said, my own experience is that the typical SKS is more accurate than the typical AK47. Both are "peasant's rifles" and will function with little or no maintenance.
Unless you want to spend a lot of money on an AK47 (like buy a real pre-ban), you can get an SKS that will have more significant collector's interest than the currently available AK47s. By than I mean, if you were to buy an AK47 with a hint of valid historical interest, it would probably be pre-ban Chicom or European rifle and would pay over $700 for one of these. The other currently available AK47 rifles don't have much, if any, collector's interest. However, for $150 to $250 you can still buy an SKS that really does have a place in history.
The AK47 is more expensive because it has the evil "assault rifle" features and the detatchable high cap mag is very handy for those who spray and pray.
As inexpensive as the SKS rifles are, just buy both.
MEMBER SINCE 10/24/1999.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
SKS without a folding stock MAY qualify for C&R
AK clips cost 1/3 as much.
O Lord,
grant me the Serenity
to accept the things
I cannot change
the courage to change the things I can,
and the supreme firepower to make the difference.0 -
Rider, I am not a SKS or AK expert but a few years ago I was in the market for either an AK or an SKS. I consulted a good buddy of mine in the military and he said SKS all the way. He said all SKS's have milled receivers and most(if not all) AK's have a stamped receiver. He had both the AK and a SKS at the range that day. The SKS was quite a bit more accurate than the AK using the same ammo. I bought the SKS about a week later. I'll take an SKS over an AK any day. Just my opinion.
"They call me Don. Dr. Jason Donald Dalinger."0 -
There are a handful of rather rare Norinco SKS's that have a stamped receiver[:0]
Love them Beavers
Keeping the "Hairy League" in check since 19480 -
KingJoey, Very interesting. I did not know that. I have yet to see one. I guess there are variations in any firearm.
"They call me Don. Dr. Jason Donald Dalinger."0 -
I had the opportunity to buy one for $150 a few years back. I said "Why the hell would I want a stamped SKS?" Boy was I wrong[xx(]
Love them Beavers
Keeping the "Hairy League" in check since 19480 -
quote:Originally posted by kingjoey
There are a handful of rather rare Norinco SKS's that have a stamped receiver[:0]
Love them Beavers
Keeping the "Hairy League" in check since 1948
And the AK47 rifles that have the milled receiver. Good to see the support for the SKS. For the money, I doubt there is a better rifle out there.
Now, in reality, you can't really just say the SKS is better than the AK47, or that the AK47 is better than the SKS. There are a lot of variations found in both of these. Right now, my only AK47 is a Polytech AK47/S National Match with 20" Heavy Barrel. I would take that over any SKS, hands down. Of course, I could buy about 6 nice SKS rifles for what the Poly National Match cost.
Before anyone starts laughing about a "National Match" Polytech Legend, of course this was a marketing ploy used to sell these rifles. There is no way it would classify as a "National Match" rifle by US standards. It is, however, about as accurate as the typical AR15 styled rifle, which is saying a lot for an AK47. And I would pit it against any SKS out there in terms of accuracy. It is also just as collectable as about any SKS I have seen.
I would also observe that there are some nice AK47 styled rifles being manufactured and sold today that might, someday, gain collector's interest. While I have never owned one, I have shot a VEPR and have a friend that holds an FFL who is very serious about the VEPR rifles. I am sure that there are members here who can recommend other very, very nice AK47 type rifles. To simply classify all SKS rifles into one group, and all AK47 rifles into one group, would be a disservice to both rifles.
For example, a few years ago, here on gunbroker auctions, an interesting Russian SKS rifle was offered that was, apparently, a prototype. It was imported with a group of Russian SKS rifles, but this one took AK47 magazines. It had all the necessary Russian markings and was a very rare RUSSIAN SKS, no doubt, an experimental version that ultimately lead to the Chinese manufacturing SKS rifles that would take AK mags. If you were trying to determine the actual worth of a Russian made SKS that took AK mags, you would have to look at the very real rarity of the rifle.
Then again, no one has even brought up the SKS rifles made that take AK mags. It may very well be that the Chicom SKS-D or SKS Sporters offer the best of both worlds. They take AK47 mags and offer the other advantages of the SKS rifles, as compared to the AK47 rifles. Have you considered looking for an SKS that takes AK mags?
This subject, really, is too subjective given the original criteria. You could toss all SKS rifles into one lump category, and all AK47 rifles into another lump category, and totally miss the mark when you compare a specific SKS to a specific AK47. Would I say an SKS compares favorably to a Chicom Polytech Legend National Match? No way. Would I say a scarce Russian prototype SKS that took AK mags compared favorably with a Polytech Legend? Most probably. Do I think the currently made VERP rifles surpass the typical SKS? Absolutely. Do I think the SKS is the best value on the market right now? Again, absolutely.
Does this help? I hope so.
MEMBER SINCE 10/24/1999.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
Good point, I do favor my paratrooper for carrying over my AK, the accuracy is a little better and the recoil is more manageable due to the less violent gas-op system of the SKS and the extra weight. Each have their advantages and disadvantages. The SKS that takes the AK mags is an interesting beast, still has advantages and disadvantages, but is a compromise on some of the issues. Here's some pics of some of the various rifles in question just for reference.
PS: Boeboe, IIRC the heavy barrel 'NM' Polytech had a Steyr-made barrel
16" Norinco paratrooper with Choate stock and 6P Surefire
20" 1958 Romanian
16" SKS-M (Takes AK mags/drums)
16" SAR-1 Romanian AK
I can't find my pic of the NHM91 which is a Norinco AK with the 20" barrel
Love them Beavers
Keeping the "Hairy League" in check since 19480 -
To answer your question, mistique makes the AK.
The SKS is a higher quality gun and more expensive to make since it has more machined parts.Its' weaknesses are a clumsy takedown, cleaning from the muzzle and a slow loading, fixed magazine.
A bayonet makes more sense on an SKS.0 -
You can clean the SKS from the breech once you remove the bolt and carrier. Now the damn Ruger 10/22....[;)]
Love them Beavers
Keeping the "Hairy League" in check since 19480 -
Since we are on the topic of the SKS, about that bayonent...
I took mine off, and it seemed like it was made of some really cheap steel. I know the Communists were notorius for human wave tactics, but it seems like a last-ditch add on. The SKS is a pretty tough rifle, but still would the barrel and/or bayonent really hold up if a soldier used it in earnest for a full blooded thrust? I mean, US bayonents seem way superior in comparison.
Which makes me ask--Why a permantely attached bayonent? The communists
didn't trust thier troops with knives/detachable bayonents? Or were the peasants soldiers just too irrespnsible to to from losing thier knives/bayonents?
I wonder if the bayonet would hold an edge if sharpen--Not that I have any serious intent to so, as it would hurt whatever slight collector value my Romanian SKS may collect through the years.
Just curious.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Workingzombie
Since we are on the topic of the SKS, about that bayonent...
I took mine off, and it seemed like it was made of some really cheap steel. I know the Communists were notorius for human wave tactics, but it seems like a last-ditch add on. The SKS is a pretty tough rifle, but still would the barrel and/or bayonent really hold up if a soldier used it in earnest for a full blooded thrust? I mean, US bayonents seem way superior in comparison.
Which makes me ask--Why a permantely attached bayonent? The communists
didn't trust thier troops with knives/detachable bayonents? Or were the peasants soldiers just too irrespnsible to to from losing thier knives/bayonents?
I wonder if the bayonet would hold an edge if sharpen--Not that I have any serious intent to so, as it would hurt whatever slight collector value my Romanian SKS may collect through the years.
Just curious.
I knew a metallurgical engineer back in the late 1970's who was, at that time, in his early 60's in age. Back then, he had been invited over to China to help standardize the steel making process. It seems that at that time, China had several provential steel forges and no standards to regulate the different quality of steels coming from them. They may have had 10 or 20 provential steel mills, compared to two or three in the "free world". The Chinese contracted him to help standardize the very different qualities of steels coming from these steel mills. This difference in quality may be a factor in the quality you are describing.
Also, could it be that the Chinese didn't consider the bayonet a real weapon that would have to be used over two or three times? That is a realistic assumption. Their attitude really was, if one of our 100 guys is able to kill one of the enemy with a bayonet, his mission has been fulfilled.
MEMBER SINCE 10/24/1999.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
Get both. But a WASR 10 AK it's worth the money.[:D] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by quikdraw67
The Chinese modified the basic design of the SKS into the "Type 68", which is a select-fire weapon with a detachable AK type magazine, and were made in both milled and stamped receiver versions
"Mongo only pawn in game of life"
It was also a rotary bolt setup IIRC. Somewhere between the SKS and the AK
Love them Beavers
Keeping the "Hairy League" in check since 19480 -
The SKS cleaning rod isn't long enough to clean the rifle from the breech. Because of the high comb stock, cleaning from the breech is a knuckle buster without a good long rod.
Unlike knife bayonets, the spike bayonet is only a thrusting weapon.
Besides bayonetting our guys while trying to clear jammed M16s, the Chinese and Koreans bayonetted the wounded and GIs in sleeping bags.
I believe it was a well utilized weapon. Being permanently mounted, it's a lot quicker to get into action than a separate bayonet in a belt sheath.0 -
I have fired and owned both. The AK is much superior in looks (yes, a matter of taste), function, accuracy (though neither matches the AR-15) and value.
Sako Fan0
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