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Win m-1897

boltaction
come across a model 97 win made in 1907 marked trap gun on breech.no pitting or rust but the blueing is mostly worn away.Not the original stock but the wood to metal fits very well.30inch full ck. no rib.Ribbed fore end.Shoot's pretty good at the trap range 98% shot in 30inch circle at 40 yrd's. Would the value go down much if it was reblued by a pro. gunsmith also what would a gun in that condition be worth. thanks in advance for any infromation.
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9 comments

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  • Bert H.
    Hello boltaction,

    Model 1897 Trap Guns are relatively rare, and YES, the value would go down a bunch if it was reblued[xx(]. For what it is worth, the Model 1897/97 was never available with either a Solid rib or a Vent Rib. They were offered with a special order matted barrel, but those are extremely rare (as are the special order damascus barrels). Are you positive that the stock has been replaced? If it has not, then it is probably worth at least $900 - $1000.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • He Dog
    Bert, for the sake of discussion if it has a replaced stock and ribbed barrel, it is already not a collectable right? So why would a re-blue harm the value of a shoter?
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  • only winchesters
    Hello boltaction: Well since the butt stock isn't original, and the forearm doesn't sound original, (ribbed). the value of the gun in it's present condition is as a shooter at best. Note Trap guns had much higher grade walnut stocks that were checkered. Reblueing it wont add any value. However if you had it restored, that would be a different story. That cost would be considerable compared to "reblueing". There are a few places that specialize in the restoration of Winchester shotguns.

    When you think "restoration" it's very simalar to a frame off restoration of a classic car. Worn parts replaced or rebuilt. The metal is hand polished, the barrel would be rust blued, the frame blued like Winchester did it. How ever restocking would be very expensive. Most likely $500-$1000 to get nice wood and hand checkering like the original. Of course the amount to do this would exceed the value of the gun. Most die hard Winchester collectors like "original" condition. But let's face it, there aren't many 100 year old Trap guns around in excellant condition.

    In reality you could spend about $1200-$1800 to get it back to the way it was when it left the factory in 1907. You would have one of the few surving Trap guns in fine condition. If you want the web sites of the Winchester shotgun restoration places, email me at winchester12@msn.com and I'll email them to you.

    Regards Dave.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by He Dog
    Bert, for the sake of discussion if it has a replaced stock and ribbed barrel, it is already not a collectable right? So why would a re-blue harm the value of a shoter?


    First, the gun in question does not have a ribbed barrel (the original poster mentioned that it had no rib, and I only provided clarifying information that they were never offered).

    Second, with only the buttstock and slide handle not being original (and we have not fully established that yet), it would be really foolish to let "Joe Blow 'smith" polish, buff, and then reblue that old gun[V]. WAY too many 'smiths are not qualified to work on an old Winchester, and WAY too many of the them are further damaged as a result. Incorrect stocks can be replaced... over polished & buffed steel can not. I personally do not view any authentic Model 1897 Trap Gun as just a "shooter".

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • He Dog
    Thanks Bert[;)]
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  • only winchesters
    Hello boltaction and everyone else: Well as far as an "authenic Trap Gun" I don't feel that's been esteablished. All we really know is it's a Md 1897, with a breech bolt that has "TRAP GUN" on it. In the last few years I've seen a few "TRAP GUN" breech bolts come up for sale, so the possibilty that the original was replaced with a "TRAP GUN" bolt is there. We are not sure of the exact year, since bolt didn't share with us where he found "1907" however, that is real close to being able to letter from Cody. The cut off date is somewhere between 1906-08. Maybe Bert can shed some more light on that.

    However there is one more charaterist that Trap, Tournament, Pigeon, Standard Trap and Special Trap guns had that Field guns didn't, and that was the groove on top of the receiver was "Matted" Ref. Stadt. So Bolt, is the groove matted?

    I said earlier that this gun in it's condition, is a shooter. My definition of a shooter, is you are not going to hurt the value by shooting it. After all as bolt said the "blueing is mostly worn away" and the stocks aren't original. Now if this gun was let's say all original and 60% or better then I might think twice about it's continued use.

    As far as a price I believe Bert is being generous, at $900-$1000 since we don't really know yet if it's "authentic", bolt where are you? In the last couple of years I've seen a Black Diamond grade Trap come up for auction here, in about the same condition, 20-30% blue and the wrist was so dark you could hardly see the "Black Diamonds" and the highest bid was $700. Even an old classic like a Md 1897/97 Trap Gun reaches a point, do to condition, they wont bring the money expected. Trying to find a buyer who just wants one in his gun cabinet or safe, can be difficult. Let's face it when these guns were new, people bought them to use. So trying to find one in "collectable condition" today is rare and expensive. Chances are a 90 plus year old Trap Gun will have some wear and may need some work.

    As far as I'm concerned I don't mind buying an old Winchester and having it properly "restored". But I factor in the cost of the gun and the restoration cost. There will be a point where the cost will exceed the cost of an "original gun" in collectable condition. That's where one has to do there homework in advance.

    I said earlier, to get this gun Boltaction is talking about restored, since the stocks aren't original to a "Trap Gun", you would be in the neighborhood of $1200-$1800. Now if you paid $900 for it, you would be in the $2100-$2700 price range, for that kind of money you start seeing original guns that don't need restoration. That's the trade off.

    Golt get back to use with the condion of the groove!!

    Regards to all

    Dave
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  • boltaction
    only winchesters the receiver is grooved on top and I got the date of the gun out of an old blue book gun value that matched serial numbers I'am sure that the stock has been replaced it looks like one from cabellas.But the forearm looks like a mod. 12 ringed forearm. You can tell by the checkering in the pistol grip that it's not old other than that the gun is in perfect cond. screws are all good.And the wood on the stock fit's right to the receiver.must have been done by someone who knew what they were doing. I'am just trying to get an idea of what it might be worth. Don't plan on gettin rid of it to soon
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  • only winchesters
    bolt: Look at the groove is it smooth or does it have squiggley lines running down the groove. (that's called matting, and it should be matted for a Trap gun)

    Ok the blue book uses the old george Maddis' serial number data, which could be plus or minus 2 years. George used a lot of sales records because USRA which owned Winchester wouldn't give him manufacturing records.

    Next question, would be on the forearm, does it have 3 screws near the rear of it holding the forearm to the action slide, or is it just one peice of wood with no screws. Lastly, Is this a Solid Frame gun or the "Take down version". (The take down will have 2 sets of serial nubers, on the the receiver and one on the receiver extention, (the collar that fits around the chamber end of the barrel that the mag tube slides into) As you look at the serial number on the receiver the second one will be just above it on the extention and do the numbers match? Right now without further info, I'd say in the $400-$600 range. added info will give me a better idea.

    Regards Dave

    Regards Dave
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  • Bert H.
    If the serial number is <378,000, it can be lettered through the Cody Firearms Museum. Serial 377,999 was manufactured circa 1909.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!

    p.s. as a side note, it is never a good idea to trust the DOM information contained in the Blue Book[:(]
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