22 Johnson M1 Carbine
I purchased an IAI M1 Carbine Model M888 online at Gunbroker. Due to unfortunate circumstances, I was not able to take it out to the range until last week. I made the purchase about year and a half ago. I thought I purchased a 30 caliber M1 Carbine per the seller. I found out today that IAI made the M1 Carbine chambered for a 22 Johnson round. I know about guns but was not aware of this type for the M1.
Can anyone tell me if they have had any experience with this type of round? I know it is rare. Do they still sell it anywhere or do the rounds need to be custom made? Is this a gun I should keep or try to sell? Obviously I want a 30 caliber M1 but if it is worth it then I would just keep it and use it.
UPDATE.......
I also just talked to Hornady Ammunition. It is a 5.7 Johnson Spitfire round. The die set is $200 using the 30 carbine casings. Now that I know I need custom handloaded ammo, is this still a worthwhile gun to keep.
Thanks,
Jeff
Can anyone tell me if they have had any experience with this type of round? I know it is rare. Do they still sell it anywhere or do the rounds need to be custom made? Is this a gun I should keep or try to sell? Obviously I want a 30 caliber M1 but if it is worth it then I would just keep it and use it.
UPDATE.......
I also just talked to Hornady Ammunition. It is a 5.7 Johnson Spitfire round. The die set is $200 using the 30 carbine casings. Now that I know I need custom handloaded ammo, is this still a worthwhile gun to keep.
Thanks,
Jeff
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My answer would be yes. You can still purcase ammunition for the rifle. I beleive the 5.7 spitfire round is a very effective one. My 2 cents. How much did you pay for it may i ask? [8D]
Greg
Former Marine
2nd A N G L I C O0 -
Being that it was made by IAI and its not a original Johnson, doesn't seem like there would be a lot of collectors interest in it.
The price of the loading dies seems steep, compared to those for standard calibers. Goes without saying that your would need the required loading equipment, ( time and effort to work up the loads ) besides the dies to reload the Johnson cartridge.
Doesn't seem to be a worthwhile proposition to get involved with, to me. Unfortunately with the lack of factory produced ammo and IAI being out of business, it might be hard to get rid of.
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If you are still interested in ammo for it give these guys a call.
Ts Guns & Ammo, (409) 948-0101 they are located in Texas City, Texas.0 -
Well...Thanks for the number. At least I know I can get the ammo now. They do make the rounds. I called and they have them in stock.
quote:Originally posted by D@D
If you are still interested in ammo for it give these guys a call.
Ts Guns & Ammo, (409) 948-0101 they are located in Texas City, Texas.0 -
Hi Greg, I paid $440 total which included shipping about 2 years ago. Are you interested???[:D]
Jeff
quote:Originally posted by gap1916
My answer would be yes. You can still purcase ammunition for the rifle. I beleive the 5.7 spitfire round is a very effective one. My 2 cents. How much did you pay for it may i ask? [8D]
Greg
Former Marine
2nd A N G L I C O0 -
Jeff-- Originally posted by bolline
Hi Greg, I paid $440 total which included shipping about 2 years ago. Are you interested???[:D]
Jeff
I'm interested. Where are located? I'm in Houston, TX.
Art0 -
I hope you have better luck with the 5.7 than I had with the .30 cal carbine. Mine and 2 other friends have been in the shop more than on the range. The rifle looks great and when it feels like firing or feeding it's great to shoot. I have tried almost every kind of ammo made for it but to no avail. I can shoot anything (even wolf ammo) out of my Rock Ola and never FTF FTE or any problems. I had it at Maxon in desplaines at least 3 times and just gave up on it. BTW, the company is out of business.
PJ
If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA PATRON-LIFE Member, AF&AM, Shriner Life Member, A.B.A.T.E. of Illinois "Chicago Chapter" Founding Member & Board Member0 -
IAI never made carbines in 5.7mm Johnson; that caliber died many years before IAI began production. What you have is an IAI with a replacement 5.7mm Johnson barrel. They have been trying to dump these barrels for 30 years; Gun Parts Corp bought what was left, & they are still selling them.
"Rare" doesn't make them valuable. I see guys walking around with original Johnson's at gun shows once or twice a year; I never saw one willing to lower the price to the point where someone would actually buy it. Don't fret it, though; most of us have been taken to the cleaners on a gun once or twice.
That having been said, the combination is really quite effective on varmints at short to medium range. Sadly, it just never caught on. Take whatever you can get to unload it.
Neal0 -
bolline,
Quite honestly, I wouldn't worry about your rifle NOT being a .30 M1 since the MMJ 5.7 is a much better cartridge than the .30 Carbine ever could be. It's fun and easy to load for. You just need to locate some decent priced dies for reloading. You should look at:
www.ch4d.com
Here is some historical information:
MMJ 5.7mm
(5.7mm Johnson)
(22 Spitfire)
Historical Notes:
This cartridge, also known as the 5.7mm Johnson or 22 Spitfire, was introduced in 1963 for the Johnson Guns, Inc. alteration of the U.S. M1 Carbine. This was a clip fed semi-auto with a folding stock advertised as a survival gun. Production was later undertaken in limited numbers by Plainfield in New Jersey. This package was designed by Melvin M. Johnson, author, Marine colonel, and the man responsible for the Johnson semi-auto rifle and light machinegun of WWII fame.
General Comments:
The MMJ 5.7mm is based on the 30 Carbine cartridge necked down to 22 caliber. It is a very efficient cartridge and, like others of this class, gives performance out of all proportion to its size. As a sporting round, its use would be limited to small or medium game and varmint shooting. In a survival situation, it would certainly kill a deer, but 22 caliber rifles are not classed for big game in most states. Down in Mexico or South America where animals are not nearly as tough or tenacious as in Africa, the 5.7mm Spitfire would make a dandy explorers weapon. One could handle anything found in the jungle with it, two or four legged. A similar wildcat is know as the 22 Carbine.
Source: Cartridges of the World
MMJ 5.7mm Reloading Data
Bullet (grs.) Powder / (grs.) MV ME Source
40 HP IMR 4227 / 14.0 2850 720 n/a
40 HP 2400 / 12.0 3000 795 n/a
50 HP IMR 4198 / 14.0 2700 810 n/a
Here is another good article about this wildcat:
http://www.thegunzone.com/carbine-wildcat.html
From the 5.7 Johnson website:
From Ed Johnson, Mel Johnson's son:
"Gentlemen, the 5.7 Website is: http://www.imageseek.com/5.7mm/, which should answer the ballistics questions. But the basics are as follows, from an 18" barrel:
"Muzzle Velocity - 2850 FPS
"Muzzle Energy - 720 foot/pounds
"Penetration - through 1/4" steel plate at 10 feet
"The above is with a 40 grain FMJ bullet
"We also have a 5.7 Club E-mail list for special bulletins. Let me know if you would like to be added. There is no charge. I would simply need your home town and state, in case there is any relevant gun show activity iny our area.
"...and welcome aboard. Ed Johnson, West Mystic, CT"
That should help a bit.
Best.0 -
But on their website they offered the 5.7 config. The website is down and now for sale.
Israel Arms International (I.A.I.) offers factory-rebuilt M1 Carbines and M1 Rifles (Garands) and a kit to convert your Carbine to fire a .30 cal carbine cartridge necked down to .22" (outside neck = .252 inch) -- offers up to 3000fps! Aug 9, 2005 - I.A.I. has their domain posted for sale. Their contact information is 1085 "F" Gessner Road, Houston, TX 77055. Phone: 713-789-0745. Fax: 713-914-9515.
PJ
If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA PATRON-LIFE Member, AF&AM, Shriner Life Member, A.B.A.T.E. of Illinois "Chicago Chapter" Founding Member & Board Member0
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