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8 mm lebel ammo?

MIKE WISKEY
at a show last week-end i bought some 8mm lebel ammo on a 24 rd sheet metal strip. I've got a 8mm berthier carbine I've never shot (yes I have the special 5 rd clips). I not an expert on berthiers (sp?), I think they make nice door stops or toilet decorations but I also have never owned a firearm I couldn't shoot. Ammo is headstamped cp (9:00), 48 (12:00), f (3:00) & 2 (6:00). Is this safe to shoot in the carbine?
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Comments

9 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    Since the ammo is meant for the Hotchkiss machine gun, I would secure the rifle in a tire and fire half dozen rounds with a long string to see if the Berthier self destructs. You know the drill.

    luger_4.jpg
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  • nononsense
    8x50R Lebel Cartridge - Hotchkiss MG Ammo

    Bullet Type

    234gr FMJ BT (Nickel jacket) (.326)

    Case - CP 2 F 48 Headstamp
    Brass - 1.983 Trim

    Primer

    Berdan

    Cartridge Overall Length

    2.949 Inches




    Powder Charge (gr)

    MV (ft/s)
    Std Dev (ft/s)
    ME (ft-lbs)
    Comments

    44.4gr Flake
    2343
    12.6
    2853
    None





    General Comments:

    Pretty hot. Do not fire this in your rifle unless it has been proofed for Balle-N rounds.

    Usually found still on the Hotchkiss belt segments. Most of the available 8mm Lebel is of this vintage.

    Headstamp translates as follows:

    "CP" is Cartoucherie Leon Paulet, Marseilles, France. (Cartridge)
    "F" is Trefileries et Laminoires de la Mediterranee, St. Louis, France. (Case)
    "2 48" is second quarter, 1948.

    http://www.gunsworld.com/french/bert_leb/lebel_cart_us.html
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  • Iconoclast
    It is not advisable for the reasons already cited. If you must, follow rufe-snow's advice. But, honestly, I still wouldn't feel all that comfortable about this even if the rifle passed the informal "proof test." If it holds up to five, but not the sixth? Etc. I'd scrounge rifle ammo. Five round clips? Usually the carbine took 3 rd strippers?

    "There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain)
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  • jonk
    I've fired a few rounds of it from a carbine and a rifle, both N proofed, to no ill effects, but it's very hot stuff, and not too accurate. I have also pulled some ammo and downloaded it about 4 gr and it is notably nicer.

    Get into reloading if you want to shoot it much. Otherwise, I'd personally try it for a few rounds, but it's your neck. Note this ammo has hard primers. Some may require 2 strikes.

    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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  • MIKE WISKEY
    'Usually the carbine took 3 rd strippers?' this one has been converted to 5 rds.
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  • MIKE WISKEY
    'Usually the carbine took 3 rd strippers?' this one has been converted to 5 rds.
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  • nononsense
    Mike,

    Here is some complete reloading data featuring current powders and bullets:

    http://www.bordingl.com/z8x50Rlebel.htm

    Best.
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  • jonk
    quote:Originally posted by nononsense
    Mike,

    Here is some complete reloading data featuring current powders and bullets:

    http://www.bordingl.com/z8x50Rlebel.htm

    Best.


    I don't know as I'd trust some of this data without working it up. For instance, it shows using 46 gr of 3031 with a 200 gr bullet, but 45 gr of 4895, with a higher velocity for the latter. With a slower burn rate and lower charge. I have used the 3031 load and that is the high end of the load I find.

    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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  • nononsense
    jonk,

    Thank you for your concern and comments. I don't trust any data posted on the internet, nor should anyone else.

    While I have never met MIKE WHISKEY, we've traded information both on and off of this forum for quite a spell. Since Mike is a gunsmith, and having read dozens and dozens of his posts about reloading, I felt safe in not having to repeat the mantra of "start low and work up to a safe load slowly, watching for signs of pressure". However, I have have now done so and hilighted it in bold and red.

    Most of us who have some experience in not only reloading but working with information off of the 'net, know full well that you don't trust absolutely any reloading data published or posted C&P. On top of that, most experienced reloaders acknowledge that with variances in manufacturing, there will be differences between lot numbers and burning rates for all powders, it's the nature of the beast. That's why we all test and work up loads rather than just jumping on the loads at the top end.

    Interestingly enough, I just finished a partial analysis of 5-IMR powders a few weeks ago and I have amassed enough data to state that between some lot groups, there isn't enough difference between 3031 and 4895 to be worth naming one over the other. But, with other lot groups there is a significant difference. It's because of the way that IMR powders are manufactured and coated. Again, that's why testing and working up loads is an absolute requirement.

    Best.
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