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Ackley Improved

East Bay
What does a gunsmith have to make a rifle "Ackley Improved"?

About what does it cost generally?

Thanks, Bryan
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Comments

13 comments

Date Votes
  • East Bay
    Can you buy ammo? Is it quality? Where? I am thinking about fixing my Ruger No.1 to be able to shoot it
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  • Bert H.
    All that a gunsmith needs is a chamber reamer to change the shoulder angle to 40 degrees. Cost is typically what the reamer costs, and the hour or so set-up and reaming time. I would suspect that the cost should run in the $100 - $125 range.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • Mobuck
    To do an ackley chamber right the barrel needs to be set back and then rechambered. This allows factory ammo to be used to fireform cases or if handloads aren't available.

    Mobuck<BR>
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  • Snellstrom
    Mobuck why do you need to set the barrel back? An Ackley improved is as simple as Bert stated and all A.I.'s are able to fire factory ammo of that original cartridge or the fire formed and reloaded ammo (improved).
    As for cost you need to check in your specific area for that, some parts of the country costs for everything are higher or lower than where I may be right now, but I'm kinda with Bert on the price $125 to $150 give or take $50.
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  • East Bay
    Dear all,
    thanks for the education! There aren't many gunsmiths in my area so it's good to know.

    Bryan
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  • nononsense
    Snellstrom,

    The barrel needs to be set back in order to cut a correct Ackley Improved chamber. The reason for this is due to the fact that the datum line for headspace needs to be shifted to the junction of the neck/shoulder from the usual point on the shoulder angle. This shift allows the the shoulder to 'blow out' to the increased angle of 40 degrees. The chamber is cut a bit tighter (-0.004") to insure a crush fit with factory ammunition.

    From P.O. Ackley's books:

    "The chamber can be reamed out so that the new chamber just barely cleans up the corner between the shoulder and neck, but this will not produce a crush fit which is necessary for fireforming factory ammunition. So the headspace has to be about .004 inch under minimum go gauge... it is almost always necessary to turn the barrel in a little bit in order to minimize headspace."

    Best.
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  • JustC
    I am a fan of the 40 degree shoulder,..have 3 ackely's in the stable right now with plans for several more in the future. And as nononsense has clearly stated,..if you don't feel the locking lugs crushing several .001"s of the shoulder when they are cammed into battery,..the gunsmith DID NOT do the job correctly. The setback is a vital part in allowing the case to expand to the new zero taper dimension as well as changing the shoulder angle and pulling the necessary brass for that growth from the neck instead of from the case-head area which greatly weakens the case and sets the shooter up for a case-head seperation. The case must be held "in compression" to acheive this, and therefore the .004" setback of the shoulder to make this happen.

    The Gibbs calibers do not require a set-back as they actully increase the length of the body when fireformed,..but require the use of false shoulders and bullets seated well into the lands to properly form,..

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
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  • Geri
    You use the go gage as a no-go gage when cutting an ackley chamber. That is why you must set the barrel back. Also some factor rifles, right out of the box will take a no-go gage. Have had two in the last month.
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  • nononsense
    Geri,

    This is a true statement.
    quote:You use the go gage as a no-go gage when cutting an ackley chamber.


    This is absolutely false.

    quote:That is why you must set the barrel back.

    You don't set the barrel back just so you can use a particular gauge. The barrel is set back to shift the headspace parameter so that the cartridge can be formed correctly. Read the description above. You are confusing the issue.

    Best.
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  • Geri
    Thank you. I stand corrected. I was instructed that the proper way was to set the barrel back, but was not told the reason.
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  • v35
    I question this reasoning. You have control of the location of the neck and the amount of crush during resizing of the fireformed case.
    To get the case tight up against the bolt face during fireforming, expand the neck 1/32" forward of the shoulder to give a crush fit.
    I wouldn't waste good factory loads in fireforming.
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  • nononsense
    v35,

    "You have control of the location of the neck and the amount of crush during resizing of the fireformed case."

    That's true but we're discussing the fireforming of standard cases in an Ackley chamber in order to achieve the Ackley conformation not resizing fireformed cases.


    "To get the case tight up against the bolt face during fireforming, expand the neck 1/32" forward of the shoulder to give a crush fit."

    This is also true and a method used frequently when making cases in forms other than Ackley in order to keep the case tight against the bolt face.

    But I think that P.O. Ackley was trying to create a process that was consistantly safe and useful for all shooters not just those who understood the slightly more advanced concepts of reloading. He didn't want to limit who could have these chambers to only those who could master a reloading technique. He perfected the system of safely fireforming factory ammunition so that virtually everyone could shoot Ackley cartridges if they wanted. The reloading of an Ackley case after fireforming was no different than reloading a standard cartridge.

    You might consider it a waste of a "good" factory load but I haven't found that there are very many "good" factory loads available at all. So in my opinion, it's not a waste of something good but an Improvement of something that is mediocre and could use some help.

    Best.
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  • v35
    This extra expense of setting back a barrel, rechambering and screwing up the appearance of a stock in the chamber area is just so you can fire factory ammo.
    I don't think it's worth it.
    Since you're forming Ackley Imp cases, you are a reloader anyway.
    I would pull the bullets, expand, say a .30 caliber neck to .32 then resize most of the neck except for 1/32" or so back down to .30 and reseat the bullets. The cartridge would then be a force fit in the chamber. This is a standard method for moving a shoulder forward if you've moved it too far back in the resizing process.
    In fireforming .219 Ackley Imp cases from 30-30 or 32 Special cases,
    both the shoulder is moved forward and the body expanded.
    It was recommended to me to put 10 grains of 2400 powder in with no bullet, cotton filler or corn meal, point the gun skyward and fire.
    Cases came out perfectly. Guns were built on the Cadet Martini and the large 577-450 Martini actions. No bullets or excess powder was wasted.
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