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380 power

gunzforever
what are 380 for they are like weaker than a 9 mm
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13 comments

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  • p3skyking
    .380 was designed to be the largest blowback action type cartridge for pocket pistols.

    At normal close in pistol ranges, on paper they are weaker, but in actual real word senario's, not much difference.

    Past 50 yards, they lose power and the 9mm shines. A .380 hollowpoint is deadlier than a 9mm ball so bullet types must also be considered.

    Your question is open to much speculation, but this is the basic answer.


    wings2.gif
    Stolen from, and with thanks, to Kiwibird
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  • haroldchrismeyer
    Bigger is almost always better, but in the real world the carry gun is limited by size. If the biggest carry gun you can hide is a 22, then that is better than a watergun(or a 25 auto). The 380 auto is a good compromise in power to gun size.
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  • beantownshootah
    9mm Luger (ie "9mm", "9mm parabellum", 9x19mm, etc) is significantly more powerful than .380 acp (ie 9mm short, "Kurtz", etc).

    You're talking 340 foot-pounds of energy for a standard 9mm Luger, vs. 200 for a standard .380. Looking at it a bit differently, the .380 ACP will put out a 102 grain bullet at just under 1000 feet per second. The 9mm will put out a *147* grain bullet at the same exact velocity.

    While the BEST .380s are probably equal to or maybe a bit better than the WORST 9mms, even a mediocre "defense" 9mm is going to beat all of the .380s, and the 9mm+P defense loads are even better.

    Take this data with a grain of salt, but it is a good place to go to get some basic idea of how the various loads and calibers stack up against one another:

    http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0
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  • Bamavol
    All through WW2 until the 1950's Beretta never made a hand gun above the 380. The Walther PPK was available as a 380 or a 32 acp. These were military and police weapons. P3skyking is correct in that 380 is the largest practical simple blow back caliber. And, most telling of all, James Bond got along fine with a Beretta 380, or was it a 32? At least untill Q forced him to switch to a Walther.

    Bamavol
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  • cloop
    Actually, you can be talking about 450 ft lbs in the 9mm, if it's loaded right (ie, 1500+ fps, 90 gr jhp). The 380,when you actually chronograph it, is nearly always considerably closer to 150 ft lbs than 200 ft lbs, and it usually won't expand a copper jacketed hollowpoint bullet, with its pathetic 900 fps, either. The only 380's worth looking at are the locked breech versions, which can be handloaded to have 250-300 ft-lbs.

    If you can't ccw a 15oz, 6" long Kahr PM9 9mm, you must always just wear a jock strap.
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  • ballardpacific
    Every time I read a reply by this P3Skyking guy I read limpid, lucid common sense.
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  • Hunter375
    quote:Originally posted by cloop
    . The only 380's worth looking at are the locked breech versions, which can be handloaded to have 250-300 ft-lbs.



    Two contrary statements.

    1: The Kel-Tec P3AT offers .380 performance in a .25 sized gun, if not a tad lighter. It is worth looking at.

    2: You needn't have a locked breech pistol for hot loads; just a high-quality one. I regularly run loads producing an average of 253 FPE through my Beretta 84 FS Inox.

    Save the seals-club a liberal instead.
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  • cloop
    yeah, and that beretta is a LOT bigger and heavier than the PM9 9mm, so why bother with it? It's still just a tad over half the power you could have, in a smaller, lighter package. Since you don't KNOW, I'll tell ya little secret. The Keltec IS a locked breech 380. So in aint ME that's out in left field. :-)
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  • beantownshootah
    quote:Originally posted by cloop
    Actually, you can be talking about 450 ft lbs in the 9mm, if it's loaded right (ie, 1500+ fps, 90 gr jhp). The 380,when you actually chronograph it, is nearly always considerably closer to 150 ft lbs than 200 ft lbs, and it usually won't expand a copper jacketed hollowpoint bullet, with its pathetic 900 fps, either. The only 380's worth looking at are the locked breech versions, which can be handloaded to have 250-300 ft-lbs.


    Not to quibble but I was talking about standard 9mms. Yes, you can get 9mm +Ps that run a lot hotter (or load your own), but that's a different story. Presumeably the one asking the question doesnt have the ability to do that, or they wouldnt be asking about the differences between 380 and 9mm.

    Its also not quite fair to compare specialty high-power .380 hollowpoints at $18 a box to cheapo 9mm plinker ammo at $7/box. Compare any decent 9mm "defense" round to any .380 and its no contest. . .the 9mm is going to perform better ballistically with significantly better bullet weight AND velocity. How much more useful that extra ballistics is in the real world is another matter. . .but I'd say it probably provides some legitimate advantage, even at point blank range.

    The answer to the original question is that 380s were designed as pocket guns. Its a marginal round; not great, but good enough, and the main advantage is in the lightness and concealability of the gun. On the other hand, 9mms were designed as full service/military guns and are still used that way in most of the world, including by the US military and still some US police depts.

    I wouldn't count much on what martini-sipping James Bond carried in his whimsical novels or the hollywood movies. . .he fought villians (some of whom where named "kitty") who thought a top hat with a sharp rim or a yo-yos made of buzz saw blades were dandy weapons for assasination. If that's the kind of adversary you expect to encounter, the .380 is probably the perfect round for you.

    More to the point, it ain't the 60s anymore, and gun design and manufacture has advanced considerably in the last 40 years. Nowadays you can get guns the size of the old "pocket" 380s that will take 9mm (or even .45). Which isnt to say that 380 is worthless, but its certainly no longer the last word in pocket automatics.
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  • cloop
    007 used a THIRTYTWO ppk, ya know. The 380 is a joke that should be allowed to expire, along with the Mak, the .32, and the .25, for the same reasons. Lack of power, and considerably more power now being available, in guns that are plenty lw and compact enough to carry in any pocket.
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  • cowboy10
    Among all small caliber guns,(22,25,32,380)I would prefer a good 32cal.. All these calibers are not powerful enough to stop a person unless you are no more than 12 feet away and able to fire multiple shots accurately.The only reason to have these guns is for concealment since size does matter and also an aggressor needs only to see the hole in the barrel and hopefully he will back off if not shoot in the head. I carry a very nice 32cal. L.W SEECAMP ,it is the same size of a small 22 or 25 and with certain ammo just as powerful than any 380cal.This gun I would trust with my life[:p][:p]
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  • cloop
    Many ignorant people "trust" the .25, or even .22 mini-revolvers, so what's new? All the .32 does (beyond what a .22 can do) is cost you 20c as much for the practice ammo. You still need head hits to have any realistic chance of stopping a man.
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  • king999
    the little 380 gets a lot of badmouth and indeed it is not a "stopper" caliber. However it is rare that anyone will belittle the 38 special as a reasonable gun, yet the 38 special in a 2" bbl has LESS energy than the 380!
    it is also true that one can SAFELY load the 380 a little hotter in a high quality modern arm. the OLDER llama 380's had a LOCKED breech and I routinely used "+P"loads without problems.
    morty
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