Smokeless powder for muzzleloading
I know that when smokeless was invented, it gave higher pressures than black powder and couldn't be used safely in older guns. Now, with modern steels, why not use smokeless in muzzleloading rifles and cap and ball pistols? Are there reasons other than tradition?
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Don't know rob, I've wondered myself. Tell ya what, you try it, tell me how it goes, then I might..Seriously, I have wondered. The new BP guns are made from modern day steel, aren't they?
Doesn't matter though. I like the smell of rotten eggs.0 -
I think somebody does make a smokeless muzzle loader....but I don't recall who.
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Savage is the only company that makes a smokeless muzzle loader. Don't try it if you don't have a Savage.
"My faith, my country and my family will guide me; nothing more, nothing less" -Gen. Tommy Franks0 -
i'd say you better think twice about doing it. it is probably because there is no need for a smokeless muzzleloader. anyone who would pay the same money to buy a gun where you had to dump in smokeless powder and bullet, rather than just insert a centerfire rifle cartridge is an idiot. this is not to mention the large increases in pressure caused by small changes in powder weights.most people use a rudimentary system of dumping black powder into a scale that is nothing more than a slide rule cup. you would need a balance beam or a digital scale to use smokeless powder in the muzzleloader. safety is another issue. there are a wide variety of smokeless powders and someone would use a different powder type than what they should and boom there they went. every black powder substitute is nearly equal in charge with the same amount of black powder. im sure someone with a little more expertise will come along and give you a myriad more reasons than i have just come up with. if you are really interested in smokeless muzzleloaders, use triple 7, it is about the best out there now.
I'm not an expert, but i did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.0 -
Besides which, the whole point of muzzle loaders is to experience the smoke and smell of black powder! That being said however, there are Hodgdons Pyrodex Pellets substitute for loose black powder for cap and ball revolvers and muskets and they are smokeless, although they are not nitrocellulose based. 0 -
Hello IMHO it all comes down to chamber pressure most smokeless powder is progressive the more pressure the faster the burn . To get that kind of pressure in a muzzleloader you would have to have a bullet that would be very hard to load down the barrel. Also the nipple or even worst the flash hole in the pan of a flint lock would gas cut at these pressures . you dont get good burn with smokeless at low pressure. 0 -
There was a guy at our range a few years ago that put smokeless powder in his muzzle loader.I don't know which powder or the amount but the resulting explosion got him and the guy at the next bench an ambulance ride to the ER.After that I consider a muzzle loader with a charge of smokeless powder a pipe bomb,not a fire arm. 0 -
You need to follow the manufactures recipe for using smokeless, don't use the same amount of smokeless that you would use for blackpowder. Perdue, just because someone wants to hunt during muzzleloader season doesn't make him or her an idiot. Maybe you should hold off on the insults.
"My faith, my country and my family will guide me; nothing more, nothing less" -Gen. Tommy Franks0 -
Dont try it unless you have a serious death wish. Muzzle loaders arent designed to handle the pressure that smokeless powder produces. The Savage muzzle loader that uses modern powder is a different design from all the others.
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I know a guy who shoots smokeless out of his Ruger Old Army. But in general, I would say that it is due to the multitude of different burn rates for smokeless powders, and the fact that while some new muzzleloaders might take the pressure, many old pieces or reproductions would not, much the same reason why new production 8mm Mauser ammo is loaded to low pressure levels- so if someone shoots it in an old Gew.88, it will be safe, even though a 98 action can take far more pressure.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf0 -
Smokeless MODERN powder in a BP rifle is asking for a trip to the ER at best or a trip to the morgue at worst. There are several black powder substitutes out there on the market that are smoke less. If you are wanting to get away from the smoke and smell of BP, try some of those substitutes. Now on BP cartridge guns, you can load smoke less powder in many of the caibers BUT there are set measurements of grains and certain powders. I use 3031 in my 45-70 loads for my sharps and my old springfild trapdoors for hunting BUT I keep the pressure in the trapdoors down below 1150 FPS. The best thing to do IF you want to use smoke less powders in a BP cartridge gun is buy a good BP cartridge loading manual that has up to date reloadin data with both BP and smoke less powder. If you want to get away from the smoke in the front stuffers, check out some of the BP smoke less substitutes out there.
I myself prefer to us true BP in my muzzle loaders. As to my BP cartridge guns, I use modern smoke less powders that are safe by the charts when hunting but as to target shooting I there again prefer true BP.
Education is nothing if common sense and manners are not in the curriculum!0 -
never said they were an idiot, I said, "anyone who would pay the same money to buy a gun where you had to dump in smokeless powder and bullet, rather than just insert a centerfire rifle cartridge is an idiot." what would really be the point of a smokeless powder muzzleloader, when triple 7 is almost smokeless?
I'm not an expert, but i did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.0 -
Mooseyard is right Savage makes an either/ or Muzzle loading rifle that burns 2 specific type of smokeless or Black powder or substitutes. 0 -
quote:anyone who would pay the same money to buy a gun where you had to dump in smokeless powder and bullet, rather than just insert a centerfire rifle cartridge is an idiot.
That is your opinion and you are welcome to it but I think you are wrong to call people "idiots". Here in Indiana, we can't use high powered rifels, only shotguns and muzzleloaders. I personally wouldn't spend that much on a Savage but two of my hunting buddies have. They love them and shoot them quite often using smokeless powder. I saw a doe that one had shot in the rib cage and it was destroyed! The devastation that the bullet caused from what I assume was the much higher velocity was massive to say the least. These Savage smokeless muzzleloaders are VERY heavy and you can tell the engineered massive amounts of steel around the breech plug area. I'm not sure what bullet they are using but I know that it is a sabot and I think that they have even had to double the sabots to help contain the huge pressure. To each his own, I'll stick to my Winchester with 777. Not because I like the smell of the powder, but to extend my hunting season a little longer.
When in doubt, unload the clip, Semper Fi0 -
I don't think anyone buying a muzzleloader for the same cost of a cartridge gun is an "idiot" . I live where it is shotgun hunting for deer no rifles allowed. A Savage has a great advantage over a shotgun for long shots. 0 -
The appeal for the Savage muzzleloader using smokless powder is the fact that there is very little involved in cleaning when using smokeless and the smokeless is not corrosive like black powder or substitutes. Here in Virginia, you are not allowed to use smokeless powder in a muzzleloader during muzzleloader season, but you can use it during the general firearms season. I realize some of the new blackpowder substitutes burn very clean, but none can burn as clean as smokeless. Like some other guy wrote in this thread, Savage only reccomends using 2 specific types of smokeless powder in their gun and it is a slow burning powder (I have read that anyway). Just my .02.[;)][;)]
"They call me Don. Dr. Jason Donald Dalinger."0
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