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Damascus barrel liners?

Dean Cascio
I know this is a dumb / dangerous question but, if one were to have barrel-liners (Reduce the bore from say 12 gauge to 20) made for an old Damascus barreled shotgun would it be safe to shoot mild loads in? Would the safety of the breach then come into question?
Dean
I know I'm pigheaded but I just feel it's somehow wrong to own a gun that can't be shot.[xx(]


If they don't trust us with guns, how can we trust them with the government?
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9 comments

Date Votes
  • perry shooter
    Hello yes this can be done . But only on a gun by gun basic. My suggestion is to get a copy of "DOUBLE GUN JOURNAL" and look at the gunsmith adds that do this kind of work . The gunsmith SHOULD ask for you to ship the gun for inspection.This work does not come cheap but it does make for a nice way to use an older gun.
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  • v35
    I agree with you Dean. These guns are made for shootin.
    As kids we all had old singles and doubles and used high base heavy loads. None of the barrels burst but all the guns loosened up .
    Some barrels were marked Genuine Armoury Steel and other non Damascus designations. Here in Va some gunsmiths are rehabbing some of these old ratters. They extend single barreled guns by sleeving for turkey shooting competitions and throw a bunch of bucks into them.
    The dilemma is that only a quality gun will justify the cost of conversion but any collectors'value will be affected.
    I have a high grade 1889 Remington star Damascus and have elected to start reloading low pressure one ounce loads for it.
    Get a copy of the Double Gun Journal Vol 13, issue2 Summer 2002. In it
    Sherman Bell does a scientific study of various powders, loads and pressures at various points along the length of high quality Damascus barrels.
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  • nononsense
    Dean,

    I ran into this with a buddy who just happened to have this beautiful old Colt shotgun and wanted to shoot it in some Cowboy competitions. The wood on this shotgun would make you cry it was so gorgeous!

    I called Briley and Koler Arms to see what they recommended and after much discussion and reading, he decided to send his shotgun off to Briley and have some lightweight tubes installed. This is a great idea and he continues to shoot it with good results. Warning: Briley and Kolar will not accept these jobs without seeing the shotgun first for a thorough examination and they will decline a job if they determine that it isn't safe.

    Here's a bit of an article about the makers. The answer to your question is the last paragraph:

    "If you don't own a small-gauge shotgun, it is possible to convert any 12-gauge 2 _-inch-chambered break-open-style shotgun (side-by-side or over/under) to shoot 20- or 28-gauge loads or even the pee-wee .410 shells. Back in the 1960s, Browning made 16 ?-inch-long small-gauge conversion tubes, called Super Tubes, in 20, 28, and .410 for skeet shooters. Joe Morales, who owns Rhino Gun Cases (800/226-3613) also makes chokes and a similar tube that works well. Credit is due, though, to the late Claude Purbaugh, who developed a full-length small-gauge tube in the early 1970s that provided even better results because it was essentially a full-length barrel. Since Browning's and Purbaugh's pioneering start, others have taken up the torch and today there are five manufacturers who make small-gauge conversion tubes of one kind or another that enable clay-target shooters and hunters to downsize their shotguns when appropriate.

    Perhaps the best-known maker of these conversion tubes is Briley Manufacturing in Houston, Texas (800/331-5718). Over the years, they have continued to refine and seek lighter materials to make their tubes less intrusive. Let's face it, once you add a tube or liner, the weight must increase. Briley's top-of-the-line Ultra-Light tubes with their titanium chambers and aircraft-strength aluminum tubes weigh 12 ounces per pair regardless of the gauge. Because the very lightweight aluminum tubes constitute the majority of the tube, and the heavier chambers are between the hands, very little of the balance is disturbed.

    These tubes must be custom fit, and hence are more expensive than Briley's drop-in, one-size-fits-all Companion tubes. Made with steel chambers and the same aircraft aluminum tubes, the 27 ?-inch Companion tubes for 28-inch barrels weigh from 13.8 ounces per pair in the 20 gauge to 15 ounces per pair for .410-bore tubes. In addition, Briley's tubes come with screw-in choke tubes, so you have a fully functional small-gauge shotgun when you tap in a set of Briley's full-length tubes. Along with Briley, Kolar Arms (262/554-0800) in Wisconsin makes similar tubes, and many shooters prefer them.

    Before we leave the subject of full-length tubes, one of the best ways to use Grandad's Damascus-barreled Parker or other good-quality shotgun of that era is by having Briley fit a set of full-length tubes to its barrels. They'll check it over to ensure safety, then install the tubes, and you've got a usable shotgun. Be aware, though, that none of these tubes are intended for steel shot; use lead, bismuth, or Kent's Tungsten Matrix only."

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3775/is_200412/ai_n9469772
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  • TRAP55
    Dean, I highly recommend Briley for the work, you can't beat their quality. Search the archives here, it wasn't to long ago this subject was discussed and lots of good info posted.

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    "Aim small, Miss small"
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  • cowboy4884
    I guess Im just lucky.. I took an old 16 gauge Damascus double barrel shotgun and made my own barrel inserts. A few years ago Midway had a sale on some barrels, I bought a pair of blank .45 cal 18 inch barrels. I chucked them up into my lathe and turned the breach end down to an exact copy of a 16 gauge brass shell. Trimmed them to 16 inches. They are welded inside the Damascus barrels. The rounds I shoot are 45-70 cowboy loads. It performs better than I expected. Now instead of having an old wall hanger, I have a useful double rifle. It took me over 6 months to get it right.

    Ken
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  • XXCross
    The bottom line in all this is: You have to have "sound Bbls" to begin with. Many Damascus Bbls look great on the outside and even in the bores, however, they may hide a lot of rust and pitting under the ribs.
    I've been shooting a 1902 Parker for about 35 years and I made damn sure there were no surprises lurking in the shadows. (I pressure tested mine by filling the tubes with honing oil and hooking the compressor up to it...150lbs/2hrs..no leaks)
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  • dog1944
    Brileys is your best bet, I own and shoot two Damascus 12ga guns one proofed in Birmingham proof house chamber lengthened to 2 3/4 and proofed to 1 oz loads and one done by Briley. I shoot a 7/8 oz load with Clays powder, I got from the Double Gun Journal, that produces less pressure then the old black powder loads. Sub gage tubes are a lot of fun I have a 16ga hammer gun with Briley 410 full length and it is a ball to shoot skeet with
    Have gun checked by some one knowledgeable in the old guns before you do anything
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  • cowboy4884
    The replies that Im getting are good comments if I hadnt already converted my old Damascus S X S shotgun. I converted it a little over a year ago. I tried for over a year prior to my conversion to get any information on my old S X S without any luck. No one had ever heard of the name on the shotgun. The only information I got on the shotgun came from 2 different gun shows that I took my S X S shotgun to, one here in Sacramento & one in Reno. Both shows, different venders said that my shotgun was a well made european. The vender in Reno pointed out the thickness of the breech and hammer area, compared to the Damascus S X S shotguns he had for sale. He asked, what were my plans for the shotgun & at that time I had none. He offered to buy the shotgun telling me that it would be a good shotgun to convert to a double rifle. He didnt offer enough for me to go out and buy a S X S so I declined his offer. Thats when I decided to conversion myself. By the time I was done with the conversion I probably could have found a fair to good double rifle. With the price I paid for the barrels, the 2 Laser Bore Sighters & the reams, plus all the hours of work. Im not a long gun owner, this is my only long gun. Ive done alot of work on handguns for myself as well as friends.

    Ken
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  • Lonewolf77
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Know the gun you are wanting to line, first.

    I have a Model 1897 damascus barrel by Winchester, available through the factory through at least 1914, and for several years thereafter, in all probability. Wouldn't use high brass or high velocity loads, but I have no fears about it's general usability and safety.

    But most sxs's have pitted or honed barrels these days, but if you get a good Remington or Colt, or Parker, LC Smith, or similar, and have the bores measured to ensure no honing, and the ribs are tight, it might be reasonable to consider low pressure loads with a liner.

    Some go with magnafluxing first, but I am not sure how accurate that is for the intended purpose.

    I shoot several with low pressure loads today, without a liner.

    I have a set of Briley tubes sitting on my desk right now in 20 ga, and am wondering which sxs will get them .

    Most ranges won't let you on with damascus, no matter what, even after re-prooving.

    There are several respected double gun websites that can provide more experienced guidance.
    I have an original 'coach gun" w/18 "bbls, made by eclipse, its fluid steel and at one time had a simulated damascus pattern on them.I shoot it, its tight as new; bores mirror. only thing I cringe when i hear words "smokeless powder" in those. I was fortunate enough to find an outlet for bp shells thru republic metallic cartridges. i think they went under with all of obamas garbage goin on however[:(] point is, i use bp shells only and have had no issues or problems in any way. sure is fun too[:D] Does anyone know where a guy can get paper case bp shells in 00 buck???
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