17 ackley bee
I have been told that one loses about 50% of the cases while fireforming for this caliber. Any input, experiance fireforming cases would be most helpfull. Thank you.
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if the rifle has normal headspace there should be NO loss of cases. remember to use new cases for fireforming. it also helps to anneal the cases after forming. 0 -
I have two customers with 218 mashborn bee's. They claim to lose about 50% of the cases while fireforming. 0 -
are they by chance inept trial lawyers? loosing half their cases? maybe they should contact the DLC for advice. 0 -
Hi. Both experianced shooters. One rifle is a kimber, the other a low wall. The cases split at the shoulder. I do not know if they are anealing the cases or not. 0 -
Geri,
Which are you asking about, the 17 Ackley Bee or the 218 Mashburn Bee?
There were a couple of bad batches of 218 Bee brass that got out of the factory and wouldn't form worth a hoot. It didn't matter if it was for Mashburn brass or 17 Ackley Bee, but that was quite a while ago.
There are 3 basic reasons for a neck to split during fireforming:
- The brass is a bad batch.
- The brass is work hardened and hasn't been annealed.
- The neck and shoulder were set back in the dies and they had to stretch too far to fill the chamber.
Usually with the 17 Ackley Bee, when the necks split, it's from the lack of annealing after the forming steps. I used 2 case forming dies and then the FL re-sizing die to get the neck area right and then followed with the annealing because the necks were work hardened.
You don't state which Kimber your customer is using but the Low Wall and that chamber could be the problem.
I thought at first you were going to say that they were using Ruger 77/22's and we all know the answer to that problem.
Without looking at the brass and their methods, these are only guesses. We need more information or they need to anneal their cases.
Best.0 -
The cases were not anealed. the splits were in the shoulder area, not the neck. I recenly rebbareled the low wall to standard 218 bee. The kimber owner has not shot his 218 for about 5 years. Said it was not worth the trouble and expense. I don't know what mod. it is, only that ist is a single shot, bolt action. I am getting ready to barrel a cz, 221 fireball to the 17 ackley bee, but the customer wants to know what the downside of the caliber would be. My suggestion was the 17 mach 4. Thanks. 0 -
I have no experience with this caliber but I have 35 years experience fireforming K-Hornet from .22 Hornet. I normally lose about 3% of R-P cases and the last lot of W-W cases I lost 50%. I no longer use W-W cases !!!
Keep Your Powder Dry
NRA Life Member
The only criminal class that is native to the United States is congress.
MARK TWAIN0 -
Geri,
Necks or shoulders, doesn't make any difference if the brass isn't annealed. It's work hardened and being forced into a somewhat radical new shape which causes the splits. Forcing the brass to go from a 15 degree shoulder to a 30 degree shoulder can wreak havoc on those Bee cases. The brass in the neck and shoulder area isn't that thick. Those bad batches of brass were about that long ago, maybe 6 years, I don't remember exactly.
I'm certainly not going to tell you what to do with your business but if I had a customer that won't shoot a rifle because of the way it is chambered or the cartridge that it's chambered for, I'd do something like get the rifle and see what I could do with it. Cast the chamber and measure it carefully. Borrow his dies and get a new batch of brass and see if you can make it run that way. Something, anything... but I would not just let it sit. No offense meant.
When I was making brass for the 17 Ackley Bee and 17 Ackley Hornet, I would lose between 3 and 5 cases per 100 new cases but it was always my fault for doing something dumb or being in a hurry. I never lost 50% of any cases that I had to manipulate and I've done way too many thousands from simple Ackleys to full blown highly modified wildcats.
I hope that you find a solution to this part of the problem.
I agree with the 17 Mach IV, especially in the CZ, it's a no-brainer conversion. It's a terrific cartridge that performs all out of proportion to its size. It's one of the best if not THE best of the 17 caliber cartridges. Recoil and report is mild, lots of bullets to choose from now. The dies are still a little pricey but at least the brass is more readily available than it was a few years ago.
Good luck!0 -
Thanks again for the input. I really apreciate the advice and expertise from all of you. 0
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