Chinese Liu rifle
Looking for the estimated value of a Chinese Liu 8mm (7.92x57mm)semi auto experimental rifle. Circa 1916. The Liu was offered in the U.S. Trials of 1916. We have the tool model, (one of a kind)* made in Conn. by Pratt & Whitney, in 1916. It is Not assembled, has no sn, but has all parts of rifle, black walnut stock, bayonet & cleaning tools. The Liu uses a muzzle cone gas system, very similar to the Danish Bang and the German G-41 (m)
Historical note: After the U.S. Trials, the inventer, General Liu, saild to China with a few rifles and the Pratt & Whitney tooling to begin manufacture at Hang Ying Military Arsenal. The ship sank in a typhoon in the South China Sea, with General Liu, the rifles and tooling.
Historical note: After the U.S. Trials, the inventer, General Liu, saild to China with a few rifles and the Pratt & Whitney tooling to begin manufacture at Hang Ying Military Arsenal. The ship sank in a typhoon in the South China Sea, with General Liu, the rifles and tooling.
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I think you are going to have to analogize the value of this gun to the value of other rare semi-auto military rifles, such as the 1929 Holek, the Japanese Type 5, RSE Mle 1917. One of a kind pieces are notoriously hard to value. Any guess of mine as to value is going to be less than satisfying. An RSE Mle 1917 will set you back at least $4000, so I will start by saying your gun is worth at least $4000. The Type 5 goes for low 5 figues. So yours "might" be worth that much??? 0 -
Originally posted by Enterprise04
quote:"Looking for the estimated value of a Chinese Liu 8mm (7.92x57mm)semi auto experimental rifle. Circa 1916. The Liu was offered in the U.S. Trials of 1916."
Is it a Chinese made gun or a Pratt & Whitney? If it's a Trials tool room model why in the world would Pratt & Whitney make it in 8MM Mauser? The US Army had been using the 30-03 and then the 30-06 for over a decade by then.
quote:"We have the tool model, (one of a kind)* made in Conn. by Pratt & Whitney, in 1916."
If you were a Chinese General going back to China wouldn't you want the tool room model to come home with all of the tooling so your illiterate machinist can follow the pattern to make the guns? Why didn't it go down with the ship?
quote:"It is Not assembled, has no sn, but has all parts of rifle, black walnut stock, bayonet & cleaning tools. The Liu uses a muzzle cone gas system, very similar to the Danish Bang and the German G-41 (m)
Historical note: After the U.S. Trials, the inventer, General Liu, saild to China with a few rifles and the Pratt & Whitney tooling to begin manufacture at Hang Ying Military Arsenal. The ship sank in a typhoon in the South China Sea, with General Liu, the rifles and tooling."Dean
If they don't trust us with guns, how can we trust them with the government?0 -
Just FYI....the Pratt & Whitney mentioned here was Pratt & Whitney Tool Company (now Pratt & Whitney Measurement Systems) and not Pratt & Whitney Aircraft (aircraft engine manufacturer) which wasn't founded until 1925. 0 -
Here is an interesting article on the rifle and the General.
http://www.gunboards.com/sites/mrj2003/China/LiuRifle2/LiuBin.htm#Top_LiuBin0 -
Good article.
Dean
quote:Originally posted by Hardrada55
Here is an interesting article on the rifle and the General.
http://www.gunboards.com/sites/mrj2003/China/LiuRifle2/LiuBin.htm#Top_LiuBin
If they don't trust us with guns, how can we trust them with the government?0 -
Good Article. 0 -
I don't think it's a question of what it's worth, more finding the person willing to pay the most for it. 0 -
Interesting.
But do you think they have found a taker in the past six years?0 -
The fact that it is an actual Chinese design, rather than something copied, should command a premium. Very unusual. 0 -
Actually the Tool Room guns were manufactured at the Hanyang Arsenal.
General Liu, manufactured a handful of them there. they were evaluated by the Chinese military.
Then they were brought here to be used to make the machinery from.
The Hanyang Arenal need new machinery to mass produce the firearm.
Pratt & Whitney Tool Company was subcontracted by Springfield Armory to make the machinery to manufacture the gun.
It is not a one of a kind but one of about 5 Tool Room guns that were made and brought here.
Now according to some so called experts there were only about a dozen made.
But most records state there were approximately 150 manufactured here.
Then they were Then loaded on the ship with the machinery and sent to China.
Why some of them are still here in the U.S. is anyone's guess.
The one at the Nation Firearms Museum, is #7. It is not a complete gun. It is missing at least by visual
look, the muzzle cone that operates the semiauto system.
If anyone says that the guns have never been fired, they don't know their head from a hole in the ground.
Each rifle, even the Tool Room guns had between 3-5 rounds run through them to make sure they functioned properly.
I have had the opportunity to handle one of the Tool Room guns left here in the U.S.
Do not know why they never made it back on the ship. May be because they were evaluated by the
U.S. Military and by the time they got back to Springfield Amory or Pratt & Whitney Tool, the ship had already sailed.0
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