Winchester Model 70 Ultimate Shadow
I like the looks of this gun and the weight but how does it shoot. Im looking at the 270wsm. Any feed back would be very helpful.
"A good scope can end a bad situation"
"A good scope can end a bad situation"
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ALL
Just looking at picking up a new rifle and wanted to know your thoughts. I am looking at the Model 70 Ultimate Shadow with Stainless in 7mm WSM. Anyone have one or shot one and what do you think of it? WSM vs Mag? Synthetic/stainless vs walnut? I will be doing 95% whitetail with it but also some western hunting. I guess thats why I opted for the flat hard hitting 7mm... a good choice?
I was going to put on a Leupold VXII 3x9x40, but is the VXIII that much better?
Also, which loads are grains/bullets are you shooting through it for deer / elk?
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Anyone????? 0 -
Magnum I can only respond to part of your post. The 7mm is a good choice but I personnally am not a big 7mm fan I will admit though it is a versatile and deadly cartridge so it will do what you are asking of it. My personal choice would be 30 caliber but if you have your heart set on a 7 then do it, for Whitetails, Mulies and Antelope the 140 to 160 grain bullets will serve you well, for Elk opt for a well constructed 160 to 175 grain bullet. Nosler Accubond, Barnes X or triple shock, Nosler Partition, Speer Grand Slams, Fail Safes and many other great bullets are available that would do all the animals you are asking about in the 160 grain bullet. Just find something that it really shoots well and practice practice practice. As for scopes you are already on the right track by considering the Leupolds. Both scopes you mention are really great, my brother swears by his Vari-x III's and I really like my Vari-x II's and cant' see why you would need to pay more cuz i think I've got it as good as it gets. Just remember not to go too high on magnification 3x9 and 3.5x10 should do what you need any higher of a low setting will cause problems for close in jump shots if they arise and trust me they can even out in the big wide open west. Hope some of the rambling helps out a bit.[;)] 0 -
Your 7mm is alright for Deer but a little small for Elk, if'n thats what you mean by hunting in the west. It's like an automobill a Caddy is great on the hyway but a 4x4 is great in the mt. for deer 7mm08 or my 30-06, For Elk I use 338 win mag or 375 h&h mag. 0 -
Many guys that have hunted elk with me will admit to hunting with a 7mm mag sometime in their past. They all have moved 'up' to a larger calliber. I think I know why.
You will need to experience it to believe how incredibly tough an elk is, as compared with a deer. Even my persomal favorite .300 WM, is sometimes 'not enough gun' for the elk that I have shot.
Please consider a larger calliber if you'te going to hunt elk, moose, or bear. These are large, proud animals that deserve a clean kill. A 300 WSM would be a good place to start.
The 325 WSM would not be too much.0 -
Thanks for the info. I guess I knew (and therefore should have stated the other part of my situation) that a .30 is the way to go. I have access to my father's 30.06 but it's not "mine."
I wanted to get a good all around gun since I would be hunting whitetails 95% of the time with it and wanted something of my own that I could shoot for anything and get very comfortable with. I believe it is more important with shot placement than size although a combination of the two would be utopia.
I have been told over and over that the 30.06 is the most versitile out there but I didn't want to buy the same gun. I had considered the .300 WSM but that would be fairly specific as its a bit much for whitetails. I have cousins that have hunted big game with 7mm's and swear by them. They have shot several Caribou at 300 plus yards and dropped them in their tracks. I also have a brother in law that shot a Mulie straight up a mountain at 430yds and he dropped straight down.
I am not an expert so that is why I am asking. These reference along with reading is all I have to go by. Anything else???
How does the .300 WSM compare to the 7mm WSM?0 -
Magnum1,
Your choice of rifles is just fine. This rifle is light enough to carry comfortably for long periods of time, which is what most hunting consists of anyway, and well made to suit a hunters needs. I think that it's a good choice for both of your pursuits.
As to the cartridge choice...
I can see the headlines now on the cover of Buns & Whammo:
"600 Nitro Express Required to Kill Elk" see article on pg. 67
Come on folks! This is elk we're talking about not some super creature endowed with a mythical property of a bulletproof hide. Superman was ficticious and I have never seen an elk running around with a big "S" on its chest either.
They are successfully hunted with arrows for crying out loud! And you want us to believe that a 7 WSM loaded with a high quality bullet won't or can't bring one down humanely? You have got to be kidding!
The only reason hunters proclaim that they need more gun in situations such as this is because they made a mistake with the gun and ammunition that they had. They made a bad or questionable shot, had the wrong bullet, misjudged the distance, didn't know where the heart or spine really was or they did something stupid like jump up immediately after the shot which sent the elk off at a run. And there are several excuses that get made in camp and on the internet to explain away their error, none of which tell the real story.
Killing an elk is no different from killing any other big game species. You deprive the brain of its blood supply or you cut off the spinal cord. Either way is functional. But the important part of the hunt is that the hunter needs to be prepared before he goes hunting. He has to know his firearm, his ammunition and the anatomy of the animal being hunted. He has to be able to judge distances accurately or get a rangefinder. He has to know what his limits are as far as shooting distance is concerned and stick to them. The ability to refuse a shot is admirable and not to be distained. The most important part of all of this is practice. Not the 5-10 shots at the range right before the season but real practice all year long. We've all seen the range right before a season and we all know what a joke it has become. I don't need to say any more.
Magnum, your choice of 7 WSM is fine. Be sure to select a quality bullet and work up an accurate load. Get a drawing of the elk's anatomy and study where the best shots are and from all different angles. Then practice and practice some more. Species that are hunted deserve our respect.
Best of luck with your hunting!0 -
nononsense
Great post! Thanks for the information and backing. I knew upon asking the question that I was asking one that probably has more to do with personal opinion than anything else. I knew there would be people that believe that its a must to start with .30, but I know not everyone shoots one.
I got what I was looking for after reading your reply. I just wanted to make sure that since I have never yet hunted Elk (planning a trip for 07 or so) that the gun I would be shooting for deer would be plenty to bring it down. You basically reiterated the point I made in my second post when I said shot placement is more important than bullet size.
Just as a little side bar.... I talked to one of the rifle guys at Cabelas who lived in NM, NE, and CO who now lives in MN. He said the majority of the locals that he had contact with in CO used 7mm's. He said that pretty much the only guys bringing in the 300's and up were from out of state. He hinted that was mostly due to them not being fully aware of the game they were after and that they assumed they needed a big caliber to kill an elk. I found that interesting.
Thanks again for the info.0 -
I agree the 7mm is a great cal
but I have a friend that cant hit anything
with his but shoots a 06 very well.
Also look a balistic tables about down range
power at 300-400 yards
I like the 300 WM but Shoot a 308 the most0 -
What nononsense said!!!...
SEMPER FI0 -
just do some research on how many ELK have been dropped with the 6.5x55 swede in the last 100yrs. The 7mm will do anything the 30cal will do unless you are in need of a pill that is in the 200+gr range. The 160gr class of 7mm pill is quite tough to argue with when launched at 3000fps.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?0 -
.300wsm or 7mm wsm....deer and elk are not going to know the difference ( I shoot the .300 but thats just me ) one rifle you might want to take a look at is the tikka t3 lite....very lite (6 1/4lbs ) and very accurate for not a lot of money....My all round gun is a tikka t3 in .300wsm with as 3x9x40 leupold rifleman...love the combo and I was out the door for a little less than $700 am planning on replacing the rifleman with a 3x9x33 leupol ultralight for $300
imay not know it all.....but at least I know that!0
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