brand new to sport, i have a few ?'s
hi, i'm just getting into target shooting after going to a new range near my house and i am looking to purchase an m4, ar-15, kb3 -.223 type rifle and was wondering what would be a good choice and how to go about getting it. as i look at all the auctions here i see all this FFL stuff, can some1 plz tell me what it means and where i can find the weapons laws where i live (west michigan.) and how i would go about registering the rifle under my name (if possible with semi-autos) because i am 16 and i would obviously need a parent to buy it for me, but with a couple of my deer rifles my dad had bought it for me and registered it under my name....so anyways not sure how all this stuff works w/ different laws or what not.
sorry if i sound like an idiot but i'm brand new to this stuff.
thanks everybody
sorry if i sound like an idiot but i'm brand new to this stuff.
thanks everybody
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To buy a firearm from out of state you need to have the gun received by a federally licensed dealer (FFL), who will then perform the actual transfer for you. The FFL will charge a fee for this service, but it's usually pretty modest. I charge $20 for my customers.
If it's your first firearm purchase and you're unsure about the process the best thing to do is to go to a gun store near where you live and talk to one of the sales people. They'll explain the process of buying a rifle in your state and any requirements there may be on the state level for licenses or what not. They'll also be more then happy to quote you a price on a model of M4 rifle. Take this info and go home, then call all the other gun stores in the phone book and ask them for a price quote on the idetical rifle and go buy it from the cheapest.
A new Bushmaster brand M4 style rifle will run you anywhere from $775-$900, depending on the area of the country you are in. Olypic arms are less, Colt is more.
Once you find out for sure that you can legally purchase that style of firearm in your area you may want to call dealers and ask how much they charge for a transfer. If you fine one that's reasonable, and a rifle that's a bargain on gunbroker, then go ahead and order it, then contact the dealer and have them send a copy of their FFL to the seller. They'll then ship the rifle to the dealer and you can go pick it up when it arrives. Sometimes you can save a lot of money by buying firearms on auctions as opposed to buying in person, but not always, so shop around.
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You have to be 18 to buy a rifle so your mom or dad would have to fill out the paperwork for you. 0 -
thanks a bunch chappsyny, i know alot more than what i started with ....nothing haha.
well i have about $400-$650 could i buy a decent rifle for that much? or if not an m4 style rifle what else would fit my budget and be of good quality?0 -
Yes you could, but it would either have to be used or you may have to assemble it yoursef. You can get parts kits from these companies for a reasonable amount of money that have everything except the lower receiver and a magazine. The lower receiver is the part that's the actual rifle, then then rest of the stuff just assembles onto it. Total assembly time is about 30 minutes with no special tools required. Both of these companies make very good kits.
www.model1sales.com
www.m-aparts.com/
For lowers you want to get a forged, mil-spec lower. Olympic arms makes a good one, as does stag arms, Rock River Arms and bushmaster. They'll typically run anywhere from $110-$175 depending on the brand.
You can get step by step instructions for assembling the rifle here. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782
All of the uppers from those comanies above are already fully assembled, headspaced and test fired so you don't have to worry about that.0 -
so do i still need to register with an ffl for the upper or lower kits? what would be an estimated cost of a basic kit if i were to put it together myself? thanks for all the info again. 0 -
Register ??? what commy state do you live in ?????? Happy to be here in TN ( No Registration of firearms ) !!!!!!!!!!!!
d.a.stearns
Gunsmith / LEO
ABC GUNS
sweetwater,tn
abc.guns0 -
On an Ar 15 the" Lower" is the part that will HAVE to go thru an FFL. In the eyes of the BATF that is the firearm. You will normally hear the critical part called the Reciever. It does change on some other firearms. On a FAL the Reciever is the "Upper" and in a purchase that, you will need to go thru an FFL Dealer. Read this in the context as if you were building the firearm. Talk to the people at your local range, They will be able to better tell you what you need to comply to the laws in your area. The state of Michigan should have a web site for more information. It looks like Dad will have to get involved with you again.
You need to check with Michigan on your legal rights inreguards of your possession of a rifle that Dad purchased.
There may be more reguarding posession and use by a minor. Check with your state and the range people. Dad may possably have to be presant with you when you use it at the range. They will let you know what you can and can not do. Be calm and respectful with them, They shouldn't steer you wrong. After all your a future customer!
C/P from Note this is basic firearms laws.
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Default.aspx#
Michigan
PURCHASE
No permit is required for the purchase of a rifle or shotgun.
No rifle, shotgun or handgun may be sold to a minor under 18 years of age, a convicted felon, or a person under indictment.
To purchase a handgun from either a dealer or private individual, the buyer must obtain a license to purchase from the chief of police if the buyer lives in a city, or the county sheriff if he lives in an area without an organized police department. The buyer must be 18 years of age, a U.S. citizen, a resident of Michigan, have no felony conviction, have never been adjudged insane (unless later restored by court order), and score 70% on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire.1
The license to purchase must be filled out in triplicate at the time of purchase. The license shall include a description of the handgun sold and the signatures of both the buyer and seller. The seller may retain one copy and the buyer retains the other two. After purchase and delivery of the handgun is completed, the buyer must return the license to purchase along with the purchased handgun, unloaded and encased or trigger locked, to the local licensing (law enforcement) authority within 10 days.
The buyer (licensee) will then be issued a safety inspection certificate (registration) for the handgun. The local authority will hold one copy of the license for six years and the remaining copy shall be forwarded to the Commissioner of State Police. The license, once issued, becomes void if not used within 10 days.0 -
quote:Originally posted by abcguns2
Register ??? what commy state do you live in ?????? Happy to be here in TN ( No Registration of firearms ) !!!!!!!!!!!!
d.a.stearns
Gunsmith / LEO
ABC GUNS
sweetwater,tn
abc.guns
Being new to firearms, his terms are a little off. In his home state he needs a "permit to purchase/posess" for handguns but the only "regestration" paperwork for long guns is the same federal forms that everyone else has to fill out on a dealer purchase.
Wise1
For target work, learning to shoot, and price, you would be ahead to purchase a bolt action in 223Rem. I know you like the look of a "black gun" but a basic bolt gun will be with you forever.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
In Michigan, you don't have to register long guns unless they are between 26 and 30 inches with stock folded-these would have to be registered as handguns. Over 30 inches, it is a long gun. less than 26 inches and it is considered an (illegal) short barrelled rifle or shotgun if it has a shoulder stock. You must be at least 18 to purchase a long gun.
Chldren less than 17 can only possess firearms (of any kind, including a pellet gun if it is over 177 caliber or has a rifled barrel be it pistol or rifle) on their own property unless accompanied by an adult.
You must be 18 to buy a handgun and only from a private owner. A dealer cannot sell a handgun to a person less than 21 years old. Handguns are registered thru your local police or sheriff department. You get a permit to purchase from that office, take it with you to purchase the gun, and return 2 of the 3 copies to the police agency with the gun after purchase-the seller keeps the 3rd copy for his records. If you have a concealed pistol license, you can purchase without the permit but the dealer/seller has a different form to fill out and you still must register the pistol/handgun with the local police agency.
All guns purchased from a dealer will have a BATFE form 4473 filled out in order to purchase, but this is not a registration (so they say)
Hope this helps!0 -
Great advice!
Ok I'm asking the next question for wise one (our new gunner)
Let's say Dad buys him and AR and one day this summer during school break, He goes over to the new gun range to shoot a few rounds. He has shot the rifle in his back yard with Dad and knows all his firearms saftey rules. He shoots responsibly. Well one day he decides to go to the range near his house "by himself" . The range Employee lets him shoot as he has saw him there the previous weekend shooting with some other people (his parents and uncle Bob). The range guy thinks nothing of it and lets him shoot.
Well the local sheriff's Deputy stops in to chat with a buddy that works behind the counter and sees the Kid shooting the AR alone, (please take no offence). Our new shooter takes a brake to change targets and the Deputy asks him how old is he and is that rifle registered to him? He replys I'm 16 and this is Dad's rifle, He let me borrow it to go shooting today while he's over at Grandpa's house running errands for him.
What trouble can he be in? Hes under age, alone with the rifle ,Not legaly registered to the rifle, Not on his parents property. What trouble will he get in? In Michigan can and will he be charged with the posession of a firearm while underaged? Will he possably lose his rights to purchase firearms and ammo when he gets older if he's charged and found guilty.
WISE 1 that's why you need to check localy!
We're trying to keep you out of jail! And a happy gun owner (or Future) gun owner!
Your new here, so FYI here in the " ask the experts" section the post normally gets locked after 10 posts. If you have some more questions just start a new post, or move over to the general section and the post count is not limited. We all welcome you and wish you sucess with your challenge!0
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