Mauser Indentification
I just inherited a Mauser bolt action rifle that belonged to my Great Grandfather.Supposedly its a 7mm cal, but I cant find any markings anywhere to suport that.
This is what has been stamped on the barrel and reciever.
WAFFENFABRIK
MAUSER A-G
OBERNDORK A/N
SERIAL# 39231
The what appears to be a sideways B and U,each letter has what appears to be a crown precceding the letter
The bolt handle is marked with a B with a crown over it and the numbers 9231.
The safety tang is marked 31.The safety has positions also.
The rear sight is calibrated from 50 to 1000 I dont know if this would be yards or meters.
Any Help would be appriciated.
Thanks John Zoellick
This is what has been stamped on the barrel and reciever.
WAFFENFABRIK
MAUSER A-G
OBERNDORK A/N
SERIAL# 39231
The what appears to be a sideways B and U,each letter has what appears to be a crown precceding the letter
The bolt handle is marked with a B with a crown over it and the numbers 9231.
The safety tang is marked 31.The safety has positions also.
The rear sight is calibrated from 50 to 1000 I dont know if this would be yards or meters.
Any Help would be appriciated.
Thanks John Zoellick
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Can't help you with the caliber, for safety sake take to a gunsmith have him make a chamber cast, inspect and test fire.
The markings "WAFFENFABRIK MAUSER", etc. Would date the rifle to the early W W I era, circa 1914 or earlier.
"Crown B" and Crown U" are German commerical proofs, used together, signifying final proofs done on guns proofed in the finished state.
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John,
rufe-snow has the biggest part of the identification done but maybe I can add a couple of the smaller bits.
The serial number time frame is closer to 1911 which means that this could be either a Model 'B' or Model 'C'. My guess is Model 'B'.
'AG' is Aktien Gesellschaft meaning that the company, Mauser, was incorporated.
Oberndorf A/N (or a/N) indicates it was made at the factory on the Neckar River, a river which by-the-way, the Germans moved in order that the Mauser factory could be expanded.
The numbers that you list all match.
The rear sight is called a tangential sight and is measured in metres.
I agree with rufe-snow about getting a chamber cast but if you go through a little extra effort, you might find out by some other markings. Take the barreled action out of the stock and look at the underside of the receiver and barrel. There should be some more numbers there, indicating the twist rate and the barrel bore and groove diameter, all in millimeters along with the cartridge designation.
Ahhhhh, trivia, ain't it great!
Post a couple of pictures if you can. Thanks.
Best of luck!0 -
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
I agree with rufe-snow about getting a chamber cast but if you go through a little extra effort, you might find out by some other markings. Take the barreled action out of the stock and look at the underside of the receiver and barrel. There should be some more numbers there, indicating the twist rate and the barrel bore and groove diameter, all in millimeters along with the cartridge designation.
Ahhhhh, trivia, ain't it great!
Post a couple of pictures if you can. Thanks.
Best of luck!
Since the rifle has likely been in circulation for over 90 years. The markings on the underside of the barrel, if there are any, might not be valid. There's always a possibility it's been rechambered for a different cartridge,i.e. you firing a 8mm Mauser cartridge in a rifle rechambered for 8mm/06, could prove unhealthy. Depending on many variables,i.e. workmanship, oversize reamer, quality of brass etc.0 -
Thanks for info, I will post what I find out.
I didnt think that this rifle was that old.My Great Grandfather came to the US in the late 1920s from Estonia.Iam not sure if he brought the Mauser with him at that time or not.My Grandfather kept the Mauser
After Great Grampa passed away in 1970.I seen the Mauser for the first time when I was 11 years old and havent seen it until last week.
Just a little family history.:)
Thanks Again
John Zoellick0 -
I just learned how to post pictures here,so here are some shots of Grampas Mauser and Elsie 12 ga.0 -
Dear John:
The other folks have covered things as well as possible based on the information available. The only thing that I could possibly add is that after you've posted the pictures, the carving on the buttstocks is very typical of the type done in the late 1950s and early 1960s. In addition, it appears to be a converted military rifle rather than a commercial Mauser, but in either case, it is extremely unlikely that your Great Grandfather brought it with him from Estonia. More probable is that he purchased it here in the USA. Until the 1968 GCA, military mausers such as the one you have could be purchased at stores such as Woolworth's 5 & 10, and through the mail for as little as $12.00. There were also books and magazine articles with instructions on how to "sporterize" old Mausers and Springfields. Among these instructions were guidelines and suggestions for how to decorate stocks. My father got carried away doing the same thing. One of the points of all this "sportization" was doing the work yourself. In light of the fact, that most "kitchen table" or "workshop" gunsmiths lacked the skill and tools to change the caliber of rifles, I would venture that it is still in the original military caliber. Nevertheless, as the others have suggested, it's best to be safe and have someone check it out for you. Unfortunatley, not many folks can cast a chamber any more and those who can do it often charge an outrageous amount. If you're anywhere near southwestern Ohio, I'd be happy to do it for you, of course, at no charge, but then I'm just an amature. Best of luck and good shooting -- Steve0 -
Oh I forgot to mention The Mausers Caliber is a 7mm. 0 -
John,
Glad to see you back and with pictures none the less! So many others don't bother to update us and we really are curious and like to see the continuing story.
If you have the time and the inclination, I'd be interested in seeing daylight photos of both sides of the receiver with the bolt in and the pistol grip. The overalls are great but a little dark for good detail. Is there any writing or a design on the buttplate?
Thanks again for the update.
drsck,
I'd like to hear your reasoning for assuming that this is a military rifle. Can you see something the pictures that we can't?
rufe-snow has already pointed out the fact that the B and U are commercial proof marks. If you examine the photos carefully there are a couple of hints as to what it might be and if John can shoot a couple more photos, we'll know for sure.
Most of the Pre-WWI Mauser Model 'B' stocks had a round knob pistol grip with checkering. The forearm sloped gently up to the barrel with 'flat oval' reinforcing areas above and in front of the trigger guard. The buttplate, if this one is original, would have a shield with the letters 'WFM' intertwined. The two attaching screws were each surrounded by a six pointed star pattern. As can be seen in the overall, the front sling swivel was soldered onto the barrel and the rear one was usually screwed in but there are a few variations.
Best.0 -
Dear Nononsense;
You're absolutely correct. No, I can't see anything that you can't, it's just that carving on the butt that drew my focus away from the other clues. Now that I've looked at the picture more closely, I can see that it probably is a commercial Mauser. I read the comment about the proof marks but disregarded it because I have more than a dozen military mausers with those same proof marks. I jumped to the conclusion that it was probably a sporterized military rifle based on the carving on the stock and the vernier sight. I've seen thousands of similar examples from the late 1950s and '60s, and couldn't imagine anyone doing that to a commerical model. One of the easiest things folks could do was work on the stock, so they did. More complicated work like removing the vernier rear sight was generally beyond most of them, so they were generally left in place. The sling swivel on the barrel and the ramp on the front sight are also indicitive that this is a commercial model, in that those kinds of alterations also were generally beyond the realm of the "sporterizer" as well. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. So, based on what we can see, especially with that stock, what would set as a value? Best of luck and good shooting -- Steve0 -
Everyone knows enough to be dangerous.
The BUG proofs are commercial but at least the safety is military by the 31 on it. Commercial Mausers didn't number the small parts. If the barrel is stepped, it's a military model. If the barrel is not, it's a civilian model. I cannot tell from the photo.
The caliber is a favorite of the Spanish and also some governments of South America. Since John didn't say anything about a crest on the receiver, either it didn't have one or it was scrubbed. Also the fact that the serno is five numbers instead of four and a suffix leads me to belive it is a commercial Mauser. Another key point to look at is if the left receiver rail has the thumb cut. Without it, I would say it's commercial.
The barrel looks mighty long. If it's 29 inches, it's may be a Wehrmanngewehre thats been chopped.0 -
p3,
Absolutely true.
The B and U proofs are not only commercial but place the rifle in a period before 1924 when they were changed.
The 7mm Mauser, if that's what John means, was a favorite of Paul Mauser period. It was usually the most common chambering of any of the commercial non-export models. The only model to not use the 7mm Mauser was the Kurz or Short Action.
At most times during production, the Mauser factory put serial numbers on all parts, even including the stock. In the very last days of the factory after the war and under French direction, there was very little accounting of small parts serial numbers but the receivers were numbered and listed per Walter Roll, the last manager of the Oberndorf factory.
Once again, I will repeat, the thumb cut, the stripper clip slot and the stepped form barrels have nothing whatsoever to do with the difference between commercial and military rifles. Commercial Mauser rifles had both the slot and thumb cut until late 1946 or early 1947 depending on whom you read, when the first FN commercial Mausers were produced. The exceptions to this rule were the experimental rifles made as prototypes and a few round actions that were used in the Walter Gehmann competition rifles. The step form barrels were standard on commercial rifles but Mauser always offered choices and upgrades from round barrels up through full tapered octagons with running ribs.
Best.0 -
The first thing that got me thinking commercial instead of military is the forward sling swivel. I've never seen a military sling swivel mounted directly to the barrel. Not saying it isn't true I just hadn't noticed it before. Also, along that line usually when someone sporterized an old Mauser they put the front swivel into the forestock instead of setting a band around the barrel.
As far as 7mm goes it was as popular, prior to WWI, as any modern cartridge out there including the 30-06. The 30-06 didn't gain great pupualarity until after WWI. It was on the rise from it's inception to WWI but not until that time did it really boom. I would say it has a much better chance of being commercial than military.
BTW-I think it's a great looking rifle.0 -
Heres some more pictures of the mauser.I dont know who did the work on the stock,Great Grampa had a collection of guns and quite a few of them had simular work done.
I did chamber a few rounds of 7mm(7x57)mauser Through and everything worked fine.
I did have the leather sling for it but removed it because it was ripped up and torn.
Thanks0
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