won't go off half cocked
okay here's a question that is probably easy to explain except for the fact that I'll have no idea what you mean when you explain it to me. But never fear. I will forward your answer to my father. He's the one that is actually looking for the info.
Okay. In a S&W airlight 22, what little part or mechanism is it that makes the gun not go off half cocked? Now that I think about it, I can't remember being able to have the hammer pulled only half way back and have it stay there on it's own. But at the breakfast table this morning that was his question. He had the gun apart to see how it worked. So, what are those "two" clicks that I hear when the hammer is comming back while pulling the trigger real slow.
Okay. In a S&W airlight 22, what little part or mechanism is it that makes the gun not go off half cocked? Now that I think about it, I can't remember being able to have the hammer pulled only half way back and have it stay there on it's own. But at the breakfast table this morning that was his question. He had the gun apart to see how it worked. So, what are those "two" clicks that I hear when the hammer is comming back while pulling the trigger real slow.
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I'm not quite sure I "get" the question, but most autos have an extra set of notches cut in the hammer for "half cock".
Its an extra safety device, so that if your finger slips while cocking the gun and accidentally releases the hammer, the hammer will fall into the "safe" half-cock position and not fire off a round.
Also, if you were to release the trigger mid-way through the double-action pull (instead of pulling it all the way back to fire normally), the half-cock should also engage for the same reason to prevent the gun from going off "half cocked".
The point is, a gun is only really supposed to fire if the hammer has been pulled *all* the way back first. The half cock is an extra safety measure (though certainly not a foolproof one) to make sure that happens.
Now, incidentally, modern Smith revolvers also have a built trigger de-activated safety which prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger has been pulled all the way back. In theory then, unless you are also pulling the trigger while cocking the gun (not very bright), the gun shouldn't be able to go off even if the hammer did slip all the way down. But redundant safeties are still a good idea.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
-Albert Einstein0 -
Alright. So far so good. So that would mean that there's a little "thing" that the extra hammer notches catch on as the hammer is drawn back? And that's the clicking noise I hear?. The hammer (and trigger are so stiff that I can't pull the hammer back without squeezing the trigger at the same time (no rounds) for a little extra help. But, if I were able to pull the hammer back would it stay half cocked or would it just fall back down? I think that it would. Although like you said that would be okay as long as you aren't squeezing the trigger. Do I have that right?
My Father is a mechanical engineer and infinatly curious as to how things work. I guess he was looking for which little part it is that makes it safe, like you described.0 -
There are several things that can creat clicks in a revolver. There is the "hand" which is what rotates the cylinder, there is the cylinder lock which holds the cylinder in alignment with the barrel during firing (if you have notches around the cylinder, the lock fit's into them), there is the 1/2 cock and full cock notches.
In the simplest designs, the top of the trigger has a finger that engages the notches on the hammer, the hammer notches the 1/2 cock one will have a lip that prevents the finger from moving while the full cock one does not.
As I'm not familier with your exact pistol, take my comments as a "general operation" not a specific one.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
As far as I know there is no half cock notch in a S&W double action revolver's hammer. S&W uses a hammer block to stop the hammer from hitting the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled all the way back. The clicks are from the way it's set up to be able to fire it single or double action, and that part is called a sear. No S&W double action revolver has a safety mechanism other than the hammer block.
Gun control is hitting what your aiming at.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mrbruce
As far as I know there is no half cock notch in a S&W double action revolver's hammer. S&W uses a hammer block to stop the hammer from hitting the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled all the way back. The clicks are from the way it's set up to be able to fire it single or double action, and that part is called a sear. No S&W double action revolver has a safety mechanism other than the hammer block.
Gun control is hitting what your aiming at.
Guess what. . you're right, I'm wrong. Mea culpa.
I just got off the phone with Smith and Wesson and they told me their revolvers DO NOT have a half-cock notch on the hammer.
I find this odd, because I am absolutely sure that I have at least a few times gotten my 637's hammer to catch in what I thought was "half cock" while manually decocking while dry-firing. ..I don't know what happened, but it probably wasn't supposed to!
Also, the Smith trigger (de)activated safety on them is still a hammer block, even though the firing pin is no longer mounted on the face of the hammer.0 -
Okay, let's see if this helps... How come when you pull the hammer back to the first click and you pull the trigger the gun won't go off. And, how come if you pull the hammer back to the 2nd click it will go off if you pull the trigger. I think that is the question that I am supposed to be asking...if not then I am hopelessly lost and don't worry about it.... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by misskelly
Alright. So far so good. So that would mean that there's a little "thing" that the extra hammer notches catch on as the hammer is drawn back? And that's the clicking noise I hear?. The hammer (and trigger are so stiff that I can't pull the hammer back without squeezing the trigger at the same time (no rounds) for a little extra help. But, if I were able to pull the hammer back would it stay half cocked or would it just fall back down? I think that it would. Although like you said that would be okay as long as you aren't squeezing the trigger. Do I have that right?
My Father is a mechanical engineer and infinatly curious as to how things work. I guess he was looking for which little part it is that makes it safe, like you described.
The only "part" that makes the gun "safe" is your BRAIN, since that's whats controlling the finger that is going to pull the trigger or not.
By the way, DO NOT (DO NOT. . .DO NOT. . .DO NOT) pull on the guns trigger while cocking it!!
If you pull the hammer back, it should stay locked back when you get to the "end" until such time as you pull the trigger.
Did I mention that you SHOULD NOT pull on the guns trigger while cocking it? (Unless you like the idea of the gun going off when you don't intend it to. Remember ALWAYS TREAT EVERY GUN AS IF IT IS LOADED, even when you know it isn't!).
If you aren't doing it already, might I suggest cocking the hammer with the thumb of the OPPOSITE hand? If you are having trouble cocking the revolver's hammer either get yourself to a gym or have the gun sent back to the factory.
If it helps satisfy your curiosity, this picture/site shows the Smith hammer block safety and what it does. Scroll down until you get to the cutaway picture of the Smith revolver.
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_FirearmFunction.htm0 -
quote:Originally posted by misskelly
Okay, let's see if this helps... How come when you pull the hammer back to the first click and you pull the trigger the gun won't go off. And, how come if you pull the hammer back to the 2nd click it will go off if you pull the trigger. I think that is the question that I am supposed to be asking...if not then I am hopelessly lost and don't worry about it....
Actually, that makes sense now.
I thought there was a half-cock position (exactly as you described), and I know my own Smith has seemed to get stuck there a few times. But Smith and Wesson just told me there isn't a half-cock safety on their revolvers. So either the Smith guy I just talked to was wrong (which I kind of doubt), or something else is going on.
I don't know why the gun seems to "catch" there. . .so this time I'm going to shut my mouth and let someone who does know answer!
EDIT:
This is confusing, but I just found the "answer":
There is apparently an "in between" (cocked and uncocked) position that Smith revolvers can get "stuck" in, if not properly decocked. You can read about this on page 22 of the Smith and Wesson modern revolver instruction manual.
http://customersupport.smith-wesson.com/userimages/Revolver.pdf
This doesn't actually answer the question of "why" it happens, but at least it convinces me that I'm not crazy!0 -
I apologize for sounding like an air head. I have been put through rigorous handgun courses, as I work as a governess for a family that maintains high security levels. I just am unfamiliar with the "mechanics" of a gun and thought that I would ask the geniouses here on the forum. Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.
"I don't have to know what I am talking about to say something" JM0 -
PS. I was using both thumbs and I still couldn't pull the hammer back. It's not my gun and I think it needs help too. My .38 is perfect, no need for a gym.
"I don't have to know what I am talking about to say something" JM0
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