.45 Colt Ctg. Continued
A little more info,
The Long & Short of the .45 Colt
by Jim Taylor
The debate over whether there is a .45 "Long" Colt cartridge is an on-going one that has been active for probably 75 years. Elmer Keith alluded to the arguments many years ago when he wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (Sixguns, page 285)
As far as I know there have never been any .45 Colt cartridges headstamped "Long" and though I have reports of old cartridge boxes marked "45 Long" I have never personally seen any. Mr. Keith referred to them from time to time as "long" Colt's (with a small "L"). If you have ever seen the short Colt .45's you can understand why.
The Winchester .45 Colt's that Paco and I have came from Shootist Keith Owlett who gave them to us a short time before he passed on. The cartridge box is deteriorated and I have it put away now - at least what's left of it. But it is plainly marked ".45 Colt Government". The headstamp on the cartridges is ".45 Colt" ...BUT these are SHORT .45 Colts! The headstamp is the same as the longer .45 Colts, even down to the "W" on the primers.
These are not S&W or Schofield cartridges. The rim diameter is the same as the long .45 Colts, which is smaller than the Schofield rim diameter. These are true .45 Short Colts. The cartridge is listed in Cartridges of the World on page 306 as ".45 Colt - .45 Colt Government".
I can visualize someone walking into a hardware store around the turn of the last century and asking for a box of .45 Colt's. As the clerk pulls down a box the customer says, "Not the short ones. I want the Long Colts!" and the name ".45 Long Colt" came down to us as a "user-applied" name, not a factory name.
While I can't prove it, I believe the usage was common since Colt had factory cartridges like the .32 Short Colt, .32 Long Colt, .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .41 Short Colt and the .41 Long Colt.
I pulled one of the .45 shorts apart and weighed and measured it. The case is 1.1" long. The powder charge was black powder, approximately 28 grains. The bullet weighed right at 230 gr. and was lubed with a white chalky-looking substance. I fired one from my Ruger 7 1/2" barreled .45 and it went through the chronograph at near 750 fps.
The following week I went out in the hills and called up a nice large coyote and shot him with the .45 short. He ran to within 10 feet of me, responding to the call. I pulled the gun up and shot, hitting him up through the right shoulder and spine, dropping him instantly. The little pointy bullet did not damage the pelt at all. I was able to tan the hide and make a nice looking wall hanging from it.
He was probably the last critter on earth ever killed with a short .45 Colt!
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Here is the link with pics http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/45_short_colt.htm
PJ
If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA PATRON-LIFE Member, AF&AM, Shriner Life Member, A.B.A.T.E. of Illinois "Chicago Chapter" Founding Member & Board Member
The Long & Short of the .45 Colt
by Jim Taylor
The debate over whether there is a .45 "Long" Colt cartridge is an on-going one that has been active for probably 75 years. Elmer Keith alluded to the arguments many years ago when he wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (Sixguns, page 285)
As far as I know there have never been any .45 Colt cartridges headstamped "Long" and though I have reports of old cartridge boxes marked "45 Long" I have never personally seen any. Mr. Keith referred to them from time to time as "long" Colt's (with a small "L"). If you have ever seen the short Colt .45's you can understand why.
The Winchester .45 Colt's that Paco and I have came from Shootist Keith Owlett who gave them to us a short time before he passed on. The cartridge box is deteriorated and I have it put away now - at least what's left of it. But it is plainly marked ".45 Colt Government". The headstamp on the cartridges is ".45 Colt" ...BUT these are SHORT .45 Colts! The headstamp is the same as the longer .45 Colts, even down to the "W" on the primers.
These are not S&W or Schofield cartridges. The rim diameter is the same as the long .45 Colts, which is smaller than the Schofield rim diameter. These are true .45 Short Colts. The cartridge is listed in Cartridges of the World on page 306 as ".45 Colt - .45 Colt Government".
I can visualize someone walking into a hardware store around the turn of the last century and asking for a box of .45 Colt's. As the clerk pulls down a box the customer says, "Not the short ones. I want the Long Colts!" and the name ".45 Long Colt" came down to us as a "user-applied" name, not a factory name.
While I can't prove it, I believe the usage was common since Colt had factory cartridges like the .32 Short Colt, .32 Long Colt, .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .41 Short Colt and the .41 Long Colt.
I pulled one of the .45 shorts apart and weighed and measured it. The case is 1.1" long. The powder charge was black powder, approximately 28 grains. The bullet weighed right at 230 gr. and was lubed with a white chalky-looking substance. I fired one from my Ruger 7 1/2" barreled .45 and it went through the chronograph at near 750 fps.
The following week I went out in the hills and called up a nice large coyote and shot him with the .45 short. He ran to within 10 feet of me, responding to the call. I pulled the gun up and shot, hitting him up through the right shoulder and spine, dropping him instantly. The little pointy bullet did not damage the pelt at all. I was able to tan the hide and make a nice looking wall hanging from it.
He was probably the last critter on earth ever killed with a short .45 Colt!
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The 480 Achilles
Here is the link with pics http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/45_short_colt.htm
PJ
If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA PATRON-LIFE Member, AF&AM, Shriner Life Member, A.B.A.T.E. of Illinois "Chicago Chapter" Founding Member & Board Member
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The 45 Long Colt came about in 1875 when S&W made the 45 Scholfield. Some Army units had the Scholfield as a issue side arm and some had the Colt as a side arm. Therefore so that the Army knew where to send what ammo, they called the 45 Colt the 45 Long Colt so that those units issed the Colt handgun would get the right ammo and those with the Scholfield would get the right ammo. The 45 S&W(Scholfield) is a shorter cartridge than the 45 Colt and will fit and fire in the 45 Colt chamber but the 45 Colt will not fit in the 45 Scholfield chamber.
AlleninAlaska
Delta Firearms & Supplies
http://www.galleryofguns.com
aglore@gci.net0 -
I agree with CHGOTHNDER, .45 Long Colt is a consumer applied name because of the confusion over .45 Colt, .45 S&W Schofield and .45 Gov't. Officially, there never was a .45 Long Colt cartridge. None of the manufacturers refer to it as such and Colt never referred to it as such. Also, I can find nothing in any US Government firearms references that the Army or military ever referred to .45 Colt as Long Colt, or .45 Schofield or Gov't as "short" Colt. 0 -
If you study the mechanics of language you will discover that spoken words orally have no meaning at all. They are simply metaphors that appear in ones head/mind. In other words the listener gives words their meaning. When we speak or listen we are really coming together on common ground for our metaphors. Everybody knows what cartridges the .45 Long Colt is. If Elmer Keith said ,".45 Long Colt", you to would know what he was talking about. Just accept the fact that the year is 2005 and everybody and their brother calls the .45 Long Colt a, ".45 Long Colt"! If not then how in the H&LL do you know what I've been writing about to correct me anyway?
Dean[}:)]
quote:Originally posted by CHGOTHNDER
A little more info,
The Long & Short of the .45 Colt
by Jim Taylor
The debate over whether there is a .45 "Long" Colt cartridge is an on-going one that has been active for probably 75 years. Elmer Keith alluded to the arguments many years ago when he wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (Sixguns, page 285)
As far as I know there have never been any .45 Colt cartridges headstamped "Long" and though I have reports of old cartridge boxes marked "45 Long" I have never personally seen any. Mr. Keith referred to them from time to time as "long" Colt's (with a small "L"). If you have ever seen the short Colt .45's you can understand why.
The Winchester .45 Colt's that Paco and I have came from Shootist Keith Owlett who gave them to us a short time before he passed on. The cartridge box is deteriorated and I have it put away now - at least what's left of it. But it is plainly marked ".45 Colt Government". The headstamp on the cartridges is ".45 Colt" ...BUT these are SHORT .45 Colts! The headstamp is the same as the longer .45 Colts, even down to the "W" on the primers.
These are not S&W or Schofield cartridges. The rim diameter is the same as the long .45 Colts, which is smaller than the Schofield rim diameter. These are true .45 Short Colts. The cartridge is listed in Cartridges of the World on page 306 as ".45 Colt - .45 Colt Government".
I can visualize someone walking into a hardware store around the turn of the last century and asking for a box of .45 Colt's. As the clerk pulls down a box the customer says, "Not the short ones. I want the Long Colts!" and the name ".45 Long Colt" came down to us as a "user-applied" name, not a factory name.
While I can't prove it, I believe the usage was common since Colt had factory cartridges like the .32 Short Colt, .32 Long Colt, .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .41 Short Colt and the .41 Long Colt.
I pulled one of the .45 shorts apart and weighed and measured it. The case is 1.1" long. The powder charge was black powder, approximately 28 grains. The bullet weighed right at 230 gr. and was lubed with a white chalky-looking substance. I fired one from my Ruger 7 1/2" barreled .45 and it went through the chronograph at near 750 fps.
The following week I went out in the hills and called up a nice large coyote and shot him with the .45 short. He ran to within 10 feet of me, responding to the call. I pulled the gun up and shot, hitting him up through the right shoulder and spine, dropping him instantly. The little pointy bullet did not damage the pelt at all. I was able to tan the hide and make a nice looking wall hanging from it.
He was probably the last critter on earth ever killed with a short .45 Colt!
Home
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Leverguns Forum
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The 480 Achilles
Here is the link with pics http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/45_short_colt.htm
PJ
If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA PATRON-LIFE Member, AF&AM, Shriner Life Member, A.B.A.T.E. of Illinois "Chicago Chapter" Founding Member & Board Member
If they don't trust us with guns, how can we trust them with the government?0 -
For what it's worth, my El Dorado single action is clearly marked 45 LC on the barrel. This is the only time I have seen it put on a firearm by a manufacturer. 0 -
So is my Stoeger Uberti Cattleman but its just another case of an inaccurate term becoming accepted. 0
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