Gun grip question: Trigger guard hold or not?
Serious question here. . .
The two-handed "combat" grip with the weak hand index finger wrapped around the front of the trigger guard was very "hot" (fashionable) in the late 80s. Lots of the guns from then have the recurved/squared off triggerguard for that reason (Beretta 92 comes to mind; so does Glock).
But from what I understand, now that same grip is actually discouraged by the gun "gurus".
I always thought that the trigger hook grip made sense because its more "symmetrical". . .both hands are held at exactly the same level, plus (more important) the extra hooking of the non-dominant hand helps control muzzle flip.
So what's "wrong" with it? Why *shouldn't* you use it? Is there any good reason, or the bias against this grip just another fad the other way?
Does anyone actually use this grip?
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
-Albert Einstein
The two-handed "combat" grip with the weak hand index finger wrapped around the front of the trigger guard was very "hot" (fashionable) in the late 80s. Lots of the guns from then have the recurved/squared off triggerguard for that reason (Beretta 92 comes to mind; so does Glock).
But from what I understand, now that same grip is actually discouraged by the gun "gurus".
I always thought that the trigger hook grip made sense because its more "symmetrical". . .both hands are held at exactly the same level, plus (more important) the extra hooking of the non-dominant hand helps control muzzle flip.
So what's "wrong" with it? Why *shouldn't* you use it? Is there any good reason, or the bias against this grip just another fad the other way?
Does anyone actually use this grip?
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
-Albert Einstein
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To think about it- I use , I guess, a similiar grip where my thumb rides along the receiver below the slide fwd of the guard. But my L/H index finger is wrapped around the trigger guard.
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.0 -
Mr. shootah,
your hands tend to want to work together. when you pull the trigger with one index finger, the other index finger wants to flex also. (especially when you are concentrating on something else such as sight picture)
try gripping your handgun in your strong hand only, with your second hand cross your thunbs and wrap your fingers around the lower three fingers of your strong hand & squeeze to increase the grip of your strong hand (on the grip area)
pull your trigger, not squeeze as you would do with a rifle.
stare at your sights & let your target blurr (eye focus on the sight picture only) it is natural for your eye to center on the target even when blurred, sort of like a peep sight in reverse.
with the above grip your second thumb is out of the way of the slide and that is a good habit to get into. contact the gun with one hand only & the second one cannot pull your shot due to reflex.
now to answer your question, nothing is wrong with using the trigger guard as you mentioned "IF THAT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU". we discuss methods but when you find something that works, results are hard to argue with!
GOOD SHOOT'EN
"all I really need to know I learned in kindergarten" Robert Fulghum
anyone who says "nobody needs a full auto" has never been in front of a brown bear charge0 -
I tend to agree with Beantown.
The IPSC shooters found the weak hand index finger-on-the-trigger guard slightly less stable than the index finger-wrapped-around-the-shooting hand-underneath-the-trigger guard, so the fashion changed.
Similarly, many combat pistol competitors found the Isoceles hold less flexible than the older Weaver stance.
Try both holds and stances in different scenarios (with pistol unloaded if you can't get to the range) and use the one that feels most natural and stable to you.
For what it's worth, I personally favor the Weaver stance and the support hand under the trigger guard. It worked for me when I first read articles about Jack Weaver and Jeff Cooper back in the '60's, and it still works.
"I think of my gun as a tool for converting worthless human garbage into valuable fertilizer." John Dollar in the novel "Bridge City" by Fred Rexer0 -
Pure marketing hype.
Try this at the range; USE the trigger guard as a support/grip enhancer while you fire a round in a pistol of .380 or above caliber.
Notice that your finger slipped off the trigger guard, and you have to reposition. This CAN'T be good for accuracy.
The grip that most can use is to interlock the knuckles of the support hand with the fingers of the grip hand kinda like a golf grip.
This is preferable to the "teacup & saucer" hold, and the "what do I do with this whole other hand" grip.
Most guns with the useless stippling and recurved guards have more recoil than most shooters' fingers can overcome, a real advantage would be a secong "guard" in front of the original to hook a finger through.
The only time a finger should touch the trigger guard is when you slide your finger past it to touch the trigger.
"Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit" --OVID0 -
since your index finger is the strongest of the four it is best to use it to its full potential, putting it in front of the trigger guard is a total waste, and any good accomplished shooter knows that your weak hand should be at least 60% of your total grip on the gun
these "gurus" did not get there by chance watch them all, watch their grip, stance etc. most people watch more of the actual shooting and speed, stop take a look at other things, you will notice their weak hand is slightly canted, they use the weak hand for most of their grip to free up the trigger finger to avoid shaking, also the weak hand is mostly use to guide you through out targeting, and moving to the next target {transition}
try this
get your grip as you do normal, point at a target squeeze your strong hand real tight, you will notice your front sight do a little dance
now relax your strong hand, make same amount of pressure with your weak hand, you should notice the difference
now try it next time you shoot0 -
When I started hand gun shooting back in the 50s if you used two hands you were a sissy. [:D] 0 -
quote:When I started hand gun shooting back in the 50s if you used two hands you were a sissy
I guess you could say the same about seat belts too {lol}, I myself was taught to shoot with one eye closed, oh! How wrong that was
I would like to see an el-prez done in 5. seconds with one hand0 -
The finger on the front of the trigger guard was the "in" way to shoot when I started shooting combat pistol matches back in the 70's. Every "expert" who was writing articles in the magazines or was writing books on the subject extolled the virtues of the grip on the trigger guard. Pistolsmiths were singing the praises of squaring the guard up and checkering it(for the right amount of money of course). So I tried it for a few matches and found myself pulling shots low and left. Went back to the griop I was using before. Right hand gripping the pistol grip tight and right thumb locked down good and tight. Left hand forming a U on the front of the right handand pulling back enough to steady the pistol and left thunb locking the right thumb down. Left elbow down and a slight bend to it and right arm pushed straight out enouogh to put backward pressure on the left arms. Keep the left arm under the pistol. The method was not original to me but Jeff Cooper teaches it. I don't know who exactly came up with it but it has worked for years. The point is to find a method that works for you and practice, practice, practice. I stayed in the lower classes for awhile and then an old Air Force Pistol Team shooter suggested that I shoot with both eyes open and forget the rear sight completely and just concentrate on the front sight. It worked. I shot my way into the upper classes and stayed there. I don't consider myself a great pistol shot but I do well enough to take care of myself and that's what counts to me. 0 -
Well Now , Lets see , considering things as they may be , I have done numerous "qualifacations" shoots for various departments I worked for and was a range instructor for a while : I also like the method taught by "Mr. Gun Guru - Cooper" , but find out what really works for "U" and practice it like there is no tomorrow !!!!! Good Luck !!!!
d.a. stearns
gunsmith
abc guns
LEO (25 years)0 -
FWIW, I was using the front of the trigger guard wrap for the longest time when one of the local instructors showed and urged me to go under the guard. It took less than two sessions to agree completely. Your dominant hand applies front to back grip--your non-dominant does side to side gripping. The finger around the trigger guard front doesn't make sense in this scenario.
Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead0 -
In the late 70's and early 80's I stretched and checkered quite a few 1911's trigger guards at customers requests. It was indeed the "thing" of the day, along with the modified Weaver stance. When applied properly and with practice it works. BUT, and this is a big "but", later on it was found that a "good" modified isosceles stance was more conducive to better second shot placement and better overall accuracy.
When using the modified Weaver stance the dominant hand is pushed straight forward while the weak hand's elbow is slightly bent pulling back, and the geometry is slightly off in the direction of the weak hand. This kind of hold allows you to shift your weak hand a little bit forward and enables you to slip/wrap your finger over the trigger guard. Your entire weak hand is actually forward and enjoins the motion of pulling the gun backwards for additional recoil control. The system has been known to work effectively and it is still taught in many police academies. BUT, for competition (reads:game) the modified isosceles brings home the win.
In the modified isosceles your body (trunk)and both arms form a rather perfect triangle when viewed from above. Both elbows are stretched out and mostly locked in placed transferring the recoil push straight back into your shoulders and torso. This makes a solid platform from which to control rapid fire. This same hold makes it awkward to slide the weak hand forward to engage the trigger guard, as this would break the "rigid" triangular geometry of the isosceles stance.
Just sliding your weak hand's finger forward to grasp the trigger guard will not help much as it would continue to slide off continually under recoil, and you would waste time repositioning it again in top of the trigger guard.
Some guns were actually designed with trigger guard "hooks", but they were made illegal to use in competition, and mostly they just interfered with most holsters.
You will notice that some shooters switch between the modified Weaver to the modified isosceles in the middle of a firing course by just slightly bending one elbow and applying some rearwards pressure at the same time, then quickly straightening both elbows and increasing the "squeeze" with the weak hand.
As somebody said: you must practice with what works best for the situation. But without practice you will never determine what that is.[:D][:D][:D][8D][8D][;)]
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"If it ain't broke, fix it anyway... make it better!" (RadCat)0 -
[8D]-- I'm sure you all know about "BULLSEYE" NRA SANTIONED SHOOTING---- one hand pistol shooting-- which we've done for almost 300 y'rs Yes, I've trained in Weaver and Isosolise stance, but this ain't a movie where they always use both hands - BULLSNOT, you will use your trained stance and not your BOOK requirement,COMPRENDE[?][?][?][?][?][?][:D]
I'm only wearing Black untill they make something darker0
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