460 Weatherby mag?
Howdy from Texas! I have acquired a .458 barrel blank and was thinkin' of chambering it in 460 Weatherby Mag., just for the hell of it. This gun will be shot very sparingly, no doubt. I understand that economically it makes no sense, as this cartridge will be more expensive to shoot than my present 458 Mag., but handloading for it will help. What I'm wondering is, will my Remington 700 bolt face have to be radically altered to accomodate this round with it's larger rim? Will my magazine allow for the extra half inch? Is it even feasible? I appreciate everyone's feedback! Thanx, Barry
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I've opened the P-14 and 1917 Enfields for the .460, but it doesn't leave much of a rim.
Enough, but just barely.
You can squeeze a 3-3/4" mag box in by taking off metal at the front and just into the trigger spring hole at the rear.
The .460 round is 3-3/4" long, so the bullet would have to be seated in a tad deeper with this mag box from Numrich. I neck the .460 up to .50 for the .510 Wells, and this round is a little shorter with my 600 grain bullets and works o.k.
There's some work to do to make the rails open enough and also the follower rib must be moved a little.
I wouldn't try this with a 700 action because I don't know what you'd use for an extractor.0 -
Barry,
I cut my teeth on the Enfields just like I. Shute did with the same results. This discussion generates some controversy because technically it can be done but there are some safety aspects to consider as well. Quite honestly, I would get a used CZ550 Magnum action and have at it since the bolt is large enough in diameter to accommodate the Rigby case.
Here is an article by Dan Lilja about this very subject:
The following is an answer to a question posed by PRECISION SHOOTING Editor, Dave Brennan about the wisdom of using a .378 Weatherby case in a long Remington 700 action. The following is Dan's response and it was published in PS in the October, 1999 issue.
378 Weatherby Cases in the Remington 700 Action?
Dear Dave:
I don't think your question about the compatibility of a Remington 700 action and a 416 Rigby or .378 Weatherby case is inappropriate at all. Although we no longer do any chambering work in our shop, I have experience with the big cases in a variety of actions. The short answer is; no I don't think the Remington should be used for either of those cases.
Here is a 338/378 Weatherby round sitting in the loading port of a long Remington 700 action. (use link for photo: http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/378_weatherby_remington_700_action.htm)
I feel this way for several reasons. First the Remington uses a 1-1/16" diameter thread shank with 16 threads per inch. In my opinion this leaves a marginal wall thickness between the root of the barrel thread and the chamber wall. The .378 Weatherby belt diameter is .610" and the largest diameter of the big Rigby case is about .590". With a thread root diameter of about .992" or so (normal for 83% contact) that leaves a wall thickness of .191" over the Weatherby belt. With the Rigby case the thickness is a little better at .201" but still marginal in my opinion.
I think all of the custom actions designed for the big cases have a 1-1/8" diameter thread shank. Much better from my viewpoint. But someone wanting to use a Remington could argue that the Weatherby MK 5 action has the same barrel thread size as the Remington. That's true but it doesn't change the fact that it is still marginal.
The Remington's thread size isn't its only shortcoming though. To make case extraction work well a Sako extractor should be installed. Opening the bolt face diameter to .600" or bigger inside a .700" diameter bolt leaves just .050" wall thickness per side. Again, marginal in my opinion. But to make the Sako extractor work the outside needs to be machined away near the business end or it won't snap over the case rim. The problem is that the extractor pivots too far beyond the .700" diameter of the bolt nose and contacts the inside of the counterbore in the Remington-type barrel. Without removing some of the end of the extractor or opening the inside diameter of the counterbore, it won't work. Marginal again.
Several years ago I wrote an article for Precision Shooting that determined bolt lug strength for a given bolt size and material strength. There was included in the article a computer code that also calculated bolt thrust developed from various cartridges. If we run the numbers through the program for our example here, the 378 Weatherby case and a standard Remington 700 action, we find that the bolt thrust value is about 12,760 pounds for a stiff handload (and whose aren't?) of 65,000 PSI. The lug strength value is greater (thankfully) at about 37,770. But that isn't near as great a margin as some lesser cartridges have in the Remington action. And with the standard repeater model the lug abuttments in the receiver are probably weaker, at least on the bottom side, than the bolt lug. The reason for this is because of the substaintial machining required for the feed ramp.
The program I used to calculate these numbers also crunches a value for lug flex at peak chamber pressure. For this example it was .0026". This means that the cases are going to stretch this much each time they're fired and explains why it becomes necessary to full-length rezise cases. This stretching isn't as much of a problem with new cases because the brass retains some elasticity and returns close to its original size for a few firings.
Oh yes, one other problem with these cases in a Remington. It is a single shot only proposition. While this won't matter to many users it might to some. My advice, when asked, is to leave the Remington 700 for smaller cases.
Best regards,
Dan Lilja0 -
some gunsmiths won't go above the 338lapua or even to the lapua in a rem700 action, anything bigger is a no-no for the strength/yield reasons mentioned.
a lot of guys are building big boomers on the CZ actions and have been quite pleased from what I read.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?0 -
Once again, you guys have come through for me, and it is much appreciated! Nice to know that strangers are concerned about your safety. I've always found this to be true with shooters. We aren't the psychos we're made out to be. Anyway, I believe the 460 is too much cartridge for the Rem. 700. But, how about this. Would it be possible to chamber this barrel in 458 LOTT which would allow me to shoot either cartridge, or is this round playing with fire also? Of course, I will keep the 20" barrel that came from the custom shop in 1964, so the gun will always be able to be restored to original, but I'm just thinking that a 26" barrel in 458 would be a lot more fun to shoot, and more accurate. Also, would leaving this barrel blank as bull barreled as possible help as far as the safety factor, or does this have nothing to do with chamber strength? Sorry to be so particular, I just love this rifle and want it to shoot to it's potential. Thanks again, Barry 0 -
Barry,
The .458 Lott will be perfectly suitable for the Remington 700. The receiver is long enough since it will take a .375 H&H and the Lott is a blown out H&H. Your boltface is already .532 which is the same for the H&H case and the chamber area diameter is the same as for the .458 Win. Mag. I generally leave the chamber area as a 1.250" diameter if possible when working from a blank.
The best part is that with the Lott chamber, you can fire both the Lott and the .458 Win. Mag. I'm not sure if that will be of any use but I have never had to do that with my Lott.
The Lott is meant to be loaded up to +2300 fps. with a 500 grain bullet so it can have some significant recoil and I would leave the barrel as heavy as is practical. Take a look at the contours of some of the classic Safari rifle barrels to get an idea.
Best of luck!0
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