Iconoclast - Info on 45 ACP FA 12 11
Iconoclast,
I have been sorting through my cartridge collection trying to update some information on specimens. Sometimes that goes OK and sometimes I run into a brick wall because I don't have the necessary references. Mabe you can help.
I have five 45 ACP cartridges in my collection from the Frankford Arsenal in Philadelphia, PA.
These have been in my possession since about 1967 when I was much younger. What is interesting to me is these have a date of December 1911 - the year the Goverenment Model 1911 was adopted by the military. That makes these cartridges some of the first 45 ACP produced by military arsenals in the US. I have attached a photo.
These have what I believe is a cuppro-nickel metal jacket and a copper primer will sealant.
Is my description accurate? Can you add any more history? When did the first arsenal begin 45 ACP production and which arsenal was it? Estimated value? Any other info would be appreciated.
I may have some more questions about other specimens later.
Thanks.
Heavyiron
"If I don't see you nomore on this world, I'll meet you on the next one, and don't be late!" - Jimi Hendrix
I have been sorting through my cartridge collection trying to update some information on specimens. Sometimes that goes OK and sometimes I run into a brick wall because I don't have the necessary references. Mabe you can help.
I have five 45 ACP cartridges in my collection from the Frankford Arsenal in Philadelphia, PA.
These have been in my possession since about 1967 when I was much younger. What is interesting to me is these have a date of December 1911 - the year the Goverenment Model 1911 was adopted by the military. That makes these cartridges some of the first 45 ACP produced by military arsenals in the US. I have attached a photo.
These have what I believe is a cuppro-nickel metal jacket and a copper primer will sealant.
Is my description accurate? Can you add any more history? When did the first arsenal begin 45 ACP production and which arsenal was it? Estimated value? Any other info would be appreciated.
I may have some more questions about other specimens later.
Thanks.
Heavyiron
"If I don't see you nomore on this world, I'll meet you on the next one, and don't be late!" - Jimi Hendrix
0
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Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks.
Heavy
"If I don't see you nomore on this world, I'll meet you on the next one, and don't be late!" - Jimi Hendrix0 -
Drop down to the WANTED Forums and give ICONOCLAST a shout.....
Captain Kirk, Tech Staff0 -
Sorry, iron, I didn't see this the first time through. Kirk, he got truly expert answers on the IAA forum. I'll post edited highlights below in case anyone else is interested.
====================================================
The first actual production lot (as opposed to
preproduction trial lots in August) was headstamped F A 9 11.
-- -- -- --
However, don't see why FA 12 11 would have
any more than very nominal value. It is not the first date, and these
month/year FA .45 rounds are not scarce.
-- -- -- --
John (pistol cartridge specialist - likely tops in the world)
=============================
John is right, 1st date is 9-11, but the 10-11 seems to not have been made. So next is 11-11 & then 12-11. The 9-11 sells / trades for about $10.00 & the others for about a buck or less.
-- -- -- --
Pete (major cartridge dealer / major general cartridge collection)
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"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain)0 -
Thanks Iconoclast,
I thought maybe you could shed some additional light on these cartridges not realizing the qualifications and expertise of the contributors from the IAA. There must really be some top notch collectors over there.
Heavy
"If I don't see you nomore on this world, I'll meet you on the next one, and don't be late!" - Jimi Hendrix0 -
iron, the guys on the IAA forum include many of those who write the reference books, among other heavy hitters. I would have given you much the same answer here if I had seen the post originally, although I find the "old guard" IAA guys not active in on line sales sometimes a bit conservative on values for items under $100. My only complaint about that forum is that there should be two divisions - basic and advanced, but that is an issue for there not here. As a long time collector, I'm sure you will find it very helpful . . . and may I urge you to join the IAA?
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain)0 -
Iconoclast: Any luck on finding some semi old F.A. .45 ACP's that used
the special sized primers that only fit the F.A.'s ? Probably in the
20's 30's or possibly very early 40's??? I know they "look like" the
usual L.P. primer but not quite the L.P. size.0 -
Iconoclast,
I know you are active with the IAA forum and also on the evil auction website auctioning cartridge specimens and I greatly respect your knowledge in this area. Personally, I don't know any other cartridge collectors so joining the IAA is a good idea. Collecting cartridges is a rather arcane hobby.
I would like to attend one of the upcoming Cartridge Shows. Do you have any advice for those who are about to attend their first show? What actually goes on at one?
Thanks for your advice.
Heavyiron
"If I don't see you nomore on this world, I'll meet you on the next one, and don't be late!" - Jimi Hendrix0 -
Joe, no I have not. But in all honesty, it's not been on the front burner, either.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain)0
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