CAD-CAM or solids data for firearms
Is there solids data available for things like the 1911 slide and frame. If, and this is hypothetical, if someone had access to a 5 axis hard mill, CNC lathes and other cool tools a chunk of 4140 or 4150 could be made into a nice shooter. You could also purchase an 80% frame and finish it much easier.
With computer controled heat treatment and milling in the hard state a frame could be held to exact tolerances.
Where does one get the solids data?
With computer controled heat treatment and milling in the hard state a frame could be held to exact tolerances.
Where does one get the solids data?
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If you can get a standard 2d - 3 view drawing of your part in question, I probably can give you a 3d model that could be imported to the CNC machine.
cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>0 -
I do not know of any CNC controller that will accept a CAD model and turn it into the proper G-code to do the machining. A model/ drawing will have to be run through the post processor appropriate to the machine controller before being sent to the machine via RS-232 port or input with a 3.5" floppy(assuming the machine controller has a disk drive). The only other way is to sit down with pencil, paper, calculator and print and write the code out by hand and then manually type it into the controller-this method can be error prone and will take quite a while for someone who only writes programs occasionally.
4140 and 4150 can be bought in the heat treated state, although I believe it is only around 38 HRC(I've never checked the stuff we get at work) and most recievers are around 48 HRC to my knowledge. From talking to a machinist/gun parts manufacturer acquaintaince who subs out all of heat treating, it isn't that expensive to have someone else do that part of it(we do our own heat treating at work).
A standard 3 axis mill(CNC or manual) and the proper tooling will do everything that needs to be done on either a frame or a slide but will require more than one setup, which will increase the probability of scrapping the part.
Anyhow, a 3D model will have to be generated in a CAD program like Autocad or Pro-E from a standard 2D drawing.0 -
quote:Originally posted by imakechips
I do not know of any CNC controller that will accept a CAD model and turn it into the proper G-code to do the machining. A model/ drawing will have to be run through the post processor appropriate to the machine controller before being sent to the machine via RS-232 port or input with a 3.5" floppy(assuming the machine controller has a disk drive). The only other way is to sit down with pencil, paper, calculator and print and write the code out by hand and then manually type it into the controller-this method can be error prone and will take quite a while for someone who only writes programs occasionally.
4140 and 4150 can be bought in the heat treated state, although I believe it is only around 38 HRC(I've never checked the stuff we get at work) and most recievers are around 48 HRC to my knowledge. From talking to a machinist/gun parts manufacturer acquaintaince who subs out all of heat treating, it isn't that expensive to have someone else do that part of it(we do our own heat treating at work).
A standard 3 axis mill(CNC or manual) and the proper tooling will do everything that needs to be done on either a frame or a slide but will require more than one setup, which will increase the probability of scrapping the part.
Anyhow, a 3D model will have to be generated in a CAD program like Autocad or Pro-E from a standard 2D drawing.
I have access to the machines. Where can I get the data file for the 1911 frame?0 -
As I understand it:
I create a SolidWorks 3-d model from a 2-d drawing, the actual part, or just design from scratch.
I send my pals at the shop an IGUS version of my model.
The shop imports my IGUS file into Master-Cam which writes a NCI file.
Using a post processor the NCI file is converted into machine language.
I do this on all of my complicated designs.
cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>0 -
Jeff, you understand well![:D]
bpost, I'd say you'll have to find a standard drawing first. I've stumbled across a few in the past, but I've lost the site addresses(computer crash). I believe I've seen these prints advertised in a publication called Shotgun News. I know they advertise several other prints and surely they could at least point you in the right direction.0 -
chips,
I'll come clean here. I didn't know the whole process! I just knew when I created something in SolidWorks it could easily be transfered to the CNC. I think things like thread callout need to be manually inserted so I always give a std. 3 view 2d drawing. I think Bob has told me that the surfaces are directly imported and that's a huge part of the job.
My offer still is on the table bpost. Actually guys, my friend is also a big machined parts supplier of mine. First class work and reasonable prices. If a few of us would get interested in the same project and come up with 2-d drawings, I could set them up for the CNC and have them made at an attractive price.
I could get really interested in this kind of project. Something to keep in mind.
cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>0 -
I'd like to add a couple of things to this discussion.
Most of the firearms manufactures worldwide use CAD/CAM/CNC as a process for their products. Even QC has been elevated to the lofty air of the CNC world in most plants. But...
No matter how many 'cool tools' or CAD/CAM/CNC programs you have access to, you can't just pop out perfect finished parts by making a drawing, solid or otherwise, and washing it through a couple of post processing programs. Some very knowledgable person still has to make decisions regarding the tool selections for the tool pallette, speeds & feeds, tool clearance and a multitude more. We shouldn't be fooled into thinking that this is a 'Polaroid' process where "you push the button and we do the rest" (mixed concept between Polaroid and Kodak). And it's usually a rare day when all of this comes together and you run perfect parts straight out of the box. The only reason that I make this statement is to see that there isn't any misunderstanding by the general reader who might be misled into believing that it was really this easy.
I draw with Gibbs and have to make all of the decisions regarding geometry, tool path, tool selection, speed & feeds, thread forming or taps,... on and on, and that doesn't even get into fixtures. Now, on the other hand, I do get to use a post processor that essentially writes the program which includes my input as suggested above. I have spent way too much time writing programs and inputting them manually over the years so I have a great appreciation for the systems that we have currently. Please don't take any of this as criticism, just a bit of an expansion of the explanation.
As a reminder, you must have an FFL Manufacturing License in order to make frames for firearms or any other part that requires a serial number.
I think that the file type you're looking for is IGES:
IGES = Initial Graphics Exchange Specification
A General Description of IGES
Products may be designed as either a two-dimensional, three-view drawing layout, or as a full three-dimensional model with associated drawing views and dimensions using a Computer Aided Design (CAD) system. The IGES format serves as a neutral data format to transfer the design to a dissimilar system. Translators, developed to the IGES Standard, are used to export a design into an IGES file for exchange and for importing the IGES file into the destination system.
This is an illustrated walk through of the entire 1911A1 project during machining. Solid models as well as CAD drawings are available under the heading 'downloads'.
http://www.cncgunsmithing.com/projects/1911a1frame.html
Here is a forum that concentrates on the CAD/CAM design community:
http://www.designcommunity.com/forum.html
http://www.designcommunity.com/messages.html0 -
Good points nn. I didn't mean to infer that I did anything magical. I have the good fortune to have a shop staff that takes my models and they do the magic. I'm just the guy that creates the parts and am able to save the shop a lot of manual data entry by offering them my files.
Yes, we don't want to start making receivers here. The Indy jails are over capacity as it is. However if some of us would become interested in building receivers or other regulated parts, I can arrange that also.
It should be obvious that I just LOVE to build things!
cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>0 -
Actually, it's legal to manufacture a frame for your own use as long as you are not otherwise legally prohibited from possessing that particular gun. This gun can never be transferred, so it could never pass through an FFL's hands. You don't even need a serial #, although BATFE recommends that you apply one, & they will assign one of your choosing upon request.
Neal0 -
Yes, Neal. Actually I'm in the process of two "80%" builds. AK & 10/22 pistols. Why some ask ... just for the fun of it. Practical? Not really, but the older I get I just enjoy doing projects without regard to practicality. 30 years ago I never would have said that.
These pistols can never be sold but they can be inherited.
cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>0 -
Neal,
But in the context of the post, there is no legality at all since the 'making' is being done by a manufacturer ostensibly without an FFL. To quality for the exception as you state, each of us would be required to make (manufacture) our own frame or complete a partially finished frame (receiver) and that's not what's being discussed. For clarification only.
Best.0 -
Once again I failed to make myself clear. If some of us would have a common interest in producing a frame or anything that is fed controlled, I can offer the models, a 1st class shop, and mfg licensed dealer that will sell them to us (admittedly for some compensation) just as Colt or Bushmaster would do. Naturally those folk do not have direct customer marketing.
I know many (but not all) of the rules. I'm too old to go to jail. What I don't know my mfg dealer/friend does.
This, like many things in life, started so simple but has grown into something much too complicated.
I'm out of this topic.
cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>0
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