Gunsmiths
Anyone know of a good gunsmith who does chamber reaming and poly-choke installs? I have an older A-5 that needs chamber work and the choke.
Thanks
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I was just curious. I see a fair number of people asking for the name of a good gunsmith. I happen to live very close to 2 good ones. In fact the one young man builds guns to and he builds a rifle as well as anyone in the country including Crum and Miller. Is there a general scaricity of gunsmiths in certain areas and that is why it seems so many are looking for one. 0 -
a couple of reasons. historically one must look what has happened over time. the end of ww2 saw a jump in gun interest. many inovations were invented and there was a need for people to incorporate them. as this happened, gun companies clued in on these ideas and started doing it in production. but the need for custom work continued to climb. making guns individual was and still is a big market. but 80% of most gunsmith work today is keeping cheap guns working. 20% is custom work. the current problem i see is that gun companies have made so many options in their lineups, the need for custom work has deminished. and so many gun owners are so picky, even if a perfect job was done, odds are they wont like it, frustrating both the owner and the gunsmith. and for the time a gunsmith puts into a job, most arent paid enough to justify the time. so, in conclusion, gunsmithing is a dieing trade because it doesnt pay. the diehard enthusiast gunsmiths are a dieing breed. they remind me of junk car dealers who try to breathe added life into a dead car and end up dumping good money into a clunker that never make s the gragde. much like we hate to see old guns go to the smelting pot. and with a reblued and rebuilt gun market dwindling, it just doesnt pay.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction. NRA certified instructor.0 -
You are right Bobski. I have noticed myself that many people who own guns seem to trade them off and just buy new ones when something goes wrong instead of sinking any money into them. Seems people are more apt to just buy new all the time. Of course guns like cars nowadays dont seem to be built to last as well. I doubt you will see many of the new guns in a closet 40 years down the road like you do with some of the old Remington 11's or Winchester 97s. Those things were tanks, but we sacrifice the durability for weight and economy now. This is good for the manufactureers and bad for the smiths. You dont see many people using the same old reliable shotgun or rifle for 40 years like my Grandfather and Father did. If it was a good gun it was always worth fixing, but now people just buy a new one.
Gunsmtihs are a dying breed that is for sure, especially the old masters. People just arent willing to pay much to fix guns anymore and its hard for the smiths to make a living at all. If Gunsmiths got paid the same as other professionals like auto techs no one would ever take their guns in, especially the cheapos. They could just buy a new cheapo.0 -
Here in the southern Wisconsin, northern Illinois area, great gunsmiths are alive and kicking. 0 -
Before admin locks this and says its material for the general discussion board, I say to JoelBlack, you are indeed fortunate where you are as active smiths are really dwindling here-like reupholstery shops and shoeshops, truly dying avocations in lots of places.
On top of that they practice a craft that is not particularly highly-regarded by this pc society - imagine the rash of s--t a kid can get today when his teacher asks, "Johnny, what does your Daddy do for a living?"
"The reward of a thing well done is to have it done." - Emerson0 -
[8D]Gunsmithy is like cabinat making, shoemakers-a dying breed. The really good gunsmiths are older and retired so they don't NEED income from their trade, they do it because they love guns and the mystery about them.Custom gunsmiths are evem rarer and usually they have LONG waiting lists[:p][:p][:p][:D]
I'm only wearing Black untill they make something darker0 -
Good Morning!
This is certainly a gloomy bunch for such a gorgeous Sunday morning!
I am in almost total disagreement with a couple of the posters.
We have been slowly coming out of one of the worst periods of time in the history of firearms manufacturing, sales and customizing. This was due for the most part to the political and social circumstances that were taking place in this country, specifically, eight years. The number of FFL's was severely reduced and there were virtually no new ones issued. Older FFL's gave up and did not renew their licenses because they got tired of being under paid, under appreciated and harassed by the gubment. The rest were driven out of business by the gubment with threats of legal actions and an incredible increase in the tax to operate an FFL business.
The schools that were educating the potential gunsmiths of the future suffered from low enrollments and in fact the number of schools offering programs went from 17 to 9 almost overnight. Working gunsmiths didn't want to take on apprentices but that was an ongoing process from the 60's forward. Most young wannabe gunsmiths, educated and trained through very good institutions were left looking for jobs other than gunsmithing or if extremely lucky (and funded), found an opportunity to buy out an existing shop and hopefully make a go of it.
The unfortunate problem with the current period of time is two-fold. One is what most of us refer to as the Polaroid Generation; those that have grown up pushing the button and voila, an instant photograph. This has led to the expressions of "How long do I have to wait?", followed promptly by "you're NUTS! I don't wait THAT long for anything!". These folks expect a gunsmith or custom builder to be waiting to jump on their project right away because it (the project) is SO important. They have no understanding that the builders and fixers have to have a constant stream of workload just like any other other business. These people are no different from any other business, employer or employee. Why do you think they are? None that I know of are independently wealthy and can afford to do work when they want and for little or no money. Most work 6 or even 7 days a week (12-16 hour days) in order to make deadlines and pay bills. There are a couple like the ones mentioned above, that have capitalized on promotions and free advertising from the idiot gunwriters, and have been thrust up to the very pinnacle of earnings while NOT being any better or more talented than a whole bunch of other gunsmiths or stockmakers struggling with their daily workload. But the difference is that the two guys above got their names and photos of their work mentioned in the rags by drooling writers who expected something in return and they are charging the bigger prices in order to control the volume and quality work load.
Second are the internet experts who contribute bad or just plain wrong information about gunsmithing, reloading or anything else about the trade. These folks are convinced that they can repair firearms or build custom firearms just because they have read about it on the internet. These are the same people that bring the box of parts or a botched project into the gunsmith and expect him or her to fix their screw ups and for very little money. They are also the ones that tell everyone that gunsmiths are overcharging and that the repair or building is easy. I'm sure that the mechanics amongst us have the same complaints.
I think that the hardest part of this business is to learn how to NOT answer the phone every time that it rings. It can be the biggest time waster of anything in this business. You have to have time to run the machines, make the parts, assemble the parts, carve the stock and finish the stock in order to get paid. And you shouldn't have to work past midnight just because you were on the phone all day. Success depends on the 'smith or builder publishing their phone times and making sure that they get back to the callers that leave a message. Another prominent change is e-mail and this is occurring in lots of industries not just the firearms industry. The businesses are being deluged by way too many e-mails, to the point of being overwhelmed. There just isn't enough time in the day to answer all of the e-mails sent from all of the people that seem to want information. Companies and individuals are now either not listing an e-mail address or closing their e-mail accounts for the business because it is dominating their time as opposed to them getting their work finished.
But, and this is a big but, there are hundreds of extremely talented gunsmiths and custom gunmakers still working and making a decent living in the U.S. because they have paid attention to the details of operating a business as a business. Those that didn't or don't, fail, it's as simple as that. You gotta wanna, and you gotta know how.
The successful gunsmiths, barrelmakers, stockers and those that do general repair are busy, very busy usually and they have learned how to run the business not let the business run them. They have also learned how to educate their customers and still keep them happy.
Every customer deserves respect but every customer needs to have the same respect for the builder and 'smith.
My apologies for the length but I felt that this was an important thread to participate in.
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[8D]Yo nonon, of course you're right, but college doesn't offer GUNSMITH as an enterprising "NEW" career, a career minded person can't live in todays prices as a gunsmith. I have to stand by my original post.[xx(][xx(][}:)][:D]
I'm only wearing Black untill they make something darker0 -
Yo, Jimbo,
Colleges most certainly do offer Gunsmithing as a career path, 9 colleges to be exact. And yes, career minded people can '...live in todays prices as a gunsmith' as long as they receive the proper training and have the ability and desire to perform at the highest levels of quality just like any other profession. The only exception to this might be in the state of California where regular folks are finding out that they can't afford to live and they have to leave the state, and are doing so in droves like so many of the businesses also.
There are literally thousands of gunsmiths all across the United States, in a large variety of fields, that are making a living, that are not 'older and retired'. A lot of them are truly talented. Maybe it would behoove you to get out more and take a look at what's really going on before you cast aspersions on a terrific as well as profitable profession. Check the enrollment figures for the Gunsmithing programs at the colleges offering that as a career path. You'll see that enrollment is not only up but it is way up and in most cases, there is a waiting list because the programs are full each semester. So gunsmiths aren't a dying breed at all. The profession has been revived and is proceeding full speed ahead in all areas of expertise.
Thank you though, for making my point for me in my original post.
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A gunsmith friend of mine, who is now 75 years of age, and still active was a part-time gunsmith for several years after he graduated from Trinidad JC. His "day job" was tool & die for an aircraft co. Then about 40 years ago he & his family moved to Oregon, bought a few acres. His wife is a music teacher so it wasn't completely cold turkey, but the lions portion of his "gunsmith" business was actually "barrel-maker". He makes barrels from scratch and uses them on rifles that he is rebarreling or building for customers, but a greater portion of his barrels are sold as blanks to other 'smiths that are building rifles. Recently he told me that the gunsmith part of the trade really wouldn't provide a workable wage in todays society. 0 -
This is a link to a story I did for Gun Digest. The story and photos show the work of just a few of the talented guys working in my part of the country.
http://www.mhtc.net/~mblack/Joel/fraser/0
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