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help appreciated with proofmark ident

catscant
Hello,

the photo shows proofmarks on a percussion DB shotgun - european, 15mm bore, barrel 32" long. Does any knowing soul recognise the crown over (possible) lion's face mark? I'm assuming the '50' is a year stamp (1850?).

there is another mark not shown on the photo - "ORIOL BERRAUD", which I am assuming is the maker - or owner.

Any info about any of the marks shown would be appreciated,

regards,

catscant.



19_proofmarks_sm.jpg
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Comments

6 comments

Date Votes
  • captkirk3@dslextreme.com
    You are not suppling enough information on your Percussion Shotgun...If you could send me a Photo of the Crown over Lion I could possibly find it listed in the Book of European Proof Marks...A photo of the Gun and a list of every Mark and Letter and where located could also help in identifying this Gun....Dismount the barrel/s and see what kind of Proof is under the Barrel/s at the Breech End....If there is an OVAL with the letters E over LG in the center...then its a Belguim made gun....I don't believe the 50 is a date of manufacture....as I have never heard of any maker dating a gun in this manner...
    The CROWN over the Lion is going to be an Acceptance Mark....But looking thru all my Books and into My data base I find at least 50 Marks that meet your discription....This why a Photo and a detailed discription is so necessary for identifying Old guns.......I/We await your pleasure.....Best..........

    Captain Kirk, Tech Staff
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  • catscant
    apologies, I had thought that a photo was attached (and appears so on my machine) - screwed up somewhere!

    Anyway - here are more close-ups which should work: I'll email them as well.

    The "lion's face" was an optical illusion - a bit more cleaning and a close-up lens shows crown over crossed palm fronds with three small crosses
    crown.jpg
    other-marks.jpg
    berraud.jpg

    Thanks for your time
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by catscant
    apologies, I had thought that a photo was attached (and appears so on my machine) - screwed up somewhere!

    Anyway - here are more close-ups which should work: I'll email them as well.

    The "lion's face" was an optical illusion - a bit more cleaning and a close-up lens shows crown over crossed palm fronds with three small crosses
    3eb4.jpg?phekPTCBVMdzZaC4
    418a.jpg?phfkPTCBytZwTBWf
    f905.jpg?phfkPTCByP603X.Y

    Thanks for your time




    Your pictures still aren't visible. Your description of the proof mark seems? to be that of the Birmingham Proof House in England. It can be described as a "Crown" over "Two Crossed Scepters" with the leters "B" , "C" and "P" under the "Crown".

    This was the final Black Powder Proof, that was in use for most of the 19th Century. This would be the right time period for a percussion shotgun. Perhaps the barrels were made and proved in England? But the shotgun was assembled and fitted on the Continent?

    luger_4.jpg
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  • catscant
    photos should be sorted now.... thanks..
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  • hrf
    Your photos are quite visible on my machine. Wirnsberger's "Standard Directory of Proof Marks" shows this mark to be that used by the St Etienne, France proof house between 1856-1869. The 50 in an oval mark may be the caliber?
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  • catscant
    HRF, many thanks! The barrel diameter at the muzzle is exactly 15mm or around 0.59" by my calculation: whether that falls in the range of 50cal or not, I don't know (please forgive my ignorance - regular contact with firearms and their terminology is not exactly encouraged in the countries I have lived in: I'm joining a gun club with a view to getting a licence to fire this weapon once restored & re-proofed - redress the imbalance a bit).

    Cheers
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