Need info on a Spandau GEW 88 mauser?
I have mauser with spandau on the top of the receiver, a crown over top the word Spandau and the year 1890 below the word Spandau. There is a small S above the crown, Matching number 1688 and on the side of the receiver is GEW 88 and is straight pull. Also it has a full metal like shroud around the barrel all the way to the muzzle cap. It is 8mm and judging by the way the magazine is made to use the clips that go in like the Carcano clips, I am betting 8x56 bit that is a guess. The rifle is in 90%+
Now what have I got here?
I appreciate any info anyone can supply
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.
Rita Mae Brown
Now what have I got here?
I appreciate any info anyone can supply
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.
Rita Mae Brown
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I believe the S is indicative of a rearsenaling with the Spitzgeschoss bullet, beyond that, I'm short on help!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
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"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
Model 1888, produced in the Spandau arsonal in 1890.
When you say straight pull, do you mean that the bolt handle is straight, or that you don't have to lift the handle before pulling to the rear?
The clip system your discribing is the Mannlicher system, and there are a number of different rifles that use it.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
http://www16.brinkster.com/m88/index.html
http://www16.brinkster.com/m88/commission88.html
The Model 1888 Commission Rifle
Thanks Adam Firestone who put most of this information together for me. Adam is the owner, and webmaster of WWW.CRUFFLER.COM . A wonderful site on the web dedicated to the needs of the firearms historian, collector, and enthusiast. Adam is an all around nice guy. Please visit his site when you leave here.
DEVELOPMENT
In 1886, the French Army unveiled the Modelle 1886 "Lebel" rifle. There was an immediate reaction in German military circles bordering on hysteria. Why? Because the Lebel was the world's first small bore military rifle using an efficient smokeless powder cartridge. Now, the Lebel, which used a tubular magazine located under the barrel was not a particularly noteworthy design, but the power and flat trajectory of the new French 8mm round far outclassed the 11mm Reichspatrone black powder round used in the contemporary German infantry rifle, the Mauser 71/84.
In this rather charged atmosphere, the German Gewehr Prfungs Kommission (GPK - Rifle Testing Commission) went to work. Initially, the idea was to revise the Mauser Gewehr 71/84 to use a small caliber smokeless powder round based on the old 11mm black powder Reichspatrone. To this extent, production machinery was ordered from the Ludwig Loewe Company of Berlin-Charlottenburg in December, 1887. As things progressed, the GPK became disillusioned with this technical approach, and so a rather strange hybrid of ideas took shape.
The bolt design was highly revised by a Spandau Arsenal technician named Louis Schlegelmilch and features a separate bolt head. The ensuing rifle had a Schlegelmilch/Mauser action, a five shot clip loaded Mannlicher style magazine (note: while the clip falls out as with the Mannlicher clips, this one was markedly improved in that it could be loaded with either end down as opposed to only one end on the true Mannlicher), and a full length barrel jacket designed by Armand Mieg. The pitch and profile of the rifling were copied directly from that of the Lebel. The cartridge chosen was a modified Swiss style rimless design based on the ideas of Eduard Rubin. By March 23, 1888, the Bavarian military observer in Berlin, General von Xylander reported that the development was virtually complete.
Field trials for the new rifle were completed in November, 1888, and the GPK recommended that it be adopted immediately. The adoption orders were signed by Kaiser Wilhelm II on November 12, 1888. Issue of the Gewehr 88 as the new rife was designated, were first made in the spring of 1889 to the XV and XVI Armeekorps stationed in Elsass-Lothringen. Issue to the Bavarian military units began in October 1889, and by August 1890, all Prussian, Saxon, and Wrttemberger line units had been re-equipped.
The Gewehr 88 was made by the three primary Prussian arsenals at Danzig, Erfurt, and Spandau, a smaller Bavarian establishment at Amberg, as well as several private contractors, including the Ludwig Loewe Company, Osterreichische Waffenfabrik Gesellschaft (Steyr), and Haenel. Production figures up to the time production ceased in 1897 are as follows:
Prussian Government Arsenals 750,000
Amberg 425,000
Loewe 425,000
Steyr 300,000
Haenel 100,000
Total 1,675,000
ISSUES
Rumors concerning breech explosions began almost as soon as the Gewehr 88 entered service. Adding fuel to the fire, many Germans asked why Mauser had not been chosen to design the rifle. Eventually, Hermann Ahlwardt, a Berlin schoolmaster, cast the blame on the Ludwig Loewe Company. He claimed that Loewe had bribed government arms inspectors to accept inferior products. It was no coincidence that the Loewe family happened to be Jewish, as was the owner of the plant making the new smokeless propellant. The German press went rabid exploiting the rumor, and the Gewehr 88 became known as the Judenflinte, or "Jewish Rifle."
The truth was less interesting. The Gewehr 88 had been rushed into service, and still had engineering issues to be overcome (not unlike the initial issues of M16 rifles to the US Army). Neck splitting issues with the cartridges were overcome by annealing the necks. Double loading was cured by redesigning the recessed bolt face. Overpressure issues were alleviated by deepening the rifling grooves on later guns and strengthening the chamber.
MODIFICATIONS
Gewehr 88/ : Indicates a post-January 9, 1891 barrel strengthened from the original design by the substitution of a straight sided cone for the original concave taper of the barrel directly in front of the chamber.
Gewehr 88/Z: Indicates either a new production or re-rifled barrel with groove depth of 0.15mm. Modification, which dates from July, 1896, was designed to eliminate the severe barrel wear and chamber pressure issues caused by original design (0.10mm groove depth). Geschoss-88 bullet diameter was 8.1mm, reduced to a bore size of 7.9mm upon firing.
Gewehr 88/S: Indicates a rifle with a newly made (not re-rifled) "Z" barrel with the chamber bored out to accept the larger diameter (8.22mm as opposed to 8.1mm) S-Patrone ammunition. Modification dates from 1903.
Gewehr 88/05: Indicates a rifle with "S" modifications and revisions to enable charger loading (as opposed to clip loading), including: Charger guide blocks fixed to the front of the sides of the split receiver bridge, ground down left receiver wall to enable the thumb to press the cartridges out of the charger into the magazine, hemispherical channel milled into the rear of the receiver ring to provide clearance for the nose of the S-Patrone bullet, magazine narrowed by addition of pressed steel strip, and shortened by the addition of a steel block, a spring loaded cartridge retainer in the left wall of the magazine, and closure of the opening in the bottom of the magazine well with a sheet steel cover. All such modifications made at Spandau beginning in1905.
Gewehr 88/14: Same as the 88/05, but with noticeably inferior standards of fit and finish. Charger guides are welded to front of the split receiver bridge and crudely shaped. Cartridge retainer is angled forwards instead of horizontal as on the 88/05.
CURRENT VALUE
These rifles, in nice original condition can fetch anywhere from $100 to $275.
SAFETY NOTICE
IMPORTANT: The Gewehr 88 was designed for the older "Geschoss 88 .318" cartridge (7.9x57mm J round), which has a smaller diameter than the later .323" S-patronen (154 grain) or sS-patronen (198 grain) (7.92x57mmJS), even if the rifle has a receiver ring stamped with an "S" to indicate that the throat has been lengthened for use with those rounds. It is at best inadvisable to shoot these rifles (all of which are over 100 years old) with JS ammunition. If you're going to shoot this rifle make sure you use 8x57J ammunition or, better yet, mild cast bullet handloads
Legal Status
All Gewehr 88's were manufactured prior to 1899 and are classified as antiques under U.S. federal law, and do NOT require any sort of license to buy, own, or ship across state lines.
Note: Data for this article came from:
Walter, John, The German Rifle, Arms and Armour Press (London: 1979) Walter, John, Central Powers' Small Arms of World War One, Crowood Press (Ramsbury, Marlborough, Wiltshire: 1999)
http://p077.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm770 -
Thanks for all the info, especially nononsence's C&P with pics! Mine has nothing at all with the GEW 88 and a sto the bolt, i reread my post and yest I meant straight bolt, not straight pull of which I have 3 of that type but a whole different rifle. The only other marking I can find is a M cartouche unde he wrist into the wood. As to the crown over the SPANDAU, mine is like the picture only with an S directly above the crown, almost touching the tip of the crown. There are some initials to the left of the crown with a crown over top each initial but my eyes need a magnifying glass to make them out clearly of which I do not have one handy! Thanks for all the info, as to value, I appreciate the estimate BUT it is not for sale so the value is a mute point to me. Was a gift so I will keep it no matter what. I might want to shoot it later on but there again that will have to wait a while due to other projects. Again thanks to all for the info.
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.
Rita Mae Brown0 -
To my knowledge, and with great respect to the preceeding efforts, the only "straight pulls" to ever achieve substantial production were: (1) Canadian Ross, (2) 1895 Steyr-Manlicher, (3) Swiss Schmidt-Rubin, (4) American Lee (not a true straight pull, more of a tilting block, but nevertheless called a straight pull). So, just taking a chance here, based upon geography, I'd theorize a 1895 Steyr-Manlicher. Look it up in a gun book under "Austria, or Austria-Hungary", and let us know. If it isn't any of these, you have something rare and unusual.[:)] 0 -
My straight pulls are 1895 steyrs and I do have a couple of 31s but in the description of the spandau I accidently said straight pull when I meant straight bolt. nononsense really nailed down the Spandau but like I stated there are a few marks like the M cartouch and the S above the crown as well as the initials with the small crown over them that I would like to have an idea as to what they mean. The GEW 88 on the side of the receiver has nothing else with it at all. what I hav is nothing "rare" but just unusual compared to the many other mausers i have. The Barrel shroud that runs the full length of the barrel is different and I had not seen one like it. Here is a picture of what is on top of my receiver of the 88:
http://www16.brinkster.com/m88/mauser%201890%20words%208.jpg
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.
Rita Mae Brown0
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