.308 Win./7.62x51 NATO--What are my options?
Okay, I've posted several questions comparing one gun to another on here, but I'm finally coming down to this: If I want to shoot .308 Win./7.62x51 NATO caliber in a semi-auto, military-type/tactical style rifle, what are my BEST options--weighing price, availability of magazines, reliability, manufacturers, etc. (not necessarily in that order). I'm not sure I've even been made aware of exactly what all is out there to choose from so YOUR input will be appreciated. I would even appreciate knowing what choices to AVOID as I'm not wealthy and don't want to buy a piece of junk.
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I've heard decent things about DSA FALs, but since I've never had the opportunity to handle one, I'll withold suggesting that.
A couple of friends of mine swear by the Springfield M1A's - mags are easy to come by, they're reliable, and accurate. Only drawback is the cost (close to two grand NIB? Yikes...).
I think Special Weapons turned out some G3 clones, but I heard they went under, so that might not be a good choice.
French MAS 49/51's maybe? I know they were originally chambered for 7.5mm, but a few were manufactured to chamber the 7.62x51. I've heard differing things about this - some folks swear by them, some folks swear at them...
I don't really know of any other semiauto 7.62's.0 -
You'll get several replies. I'll just give you my opinion, one among many. The very best semi-auto military rifle in 7.62mm NATO was/is the M14. About the closest you'll get now is the Springfield M1A. The FN-FAL is a close runner-up. We'd all be interested in you final decision, and what made you spend your money.[:)] 0 -
When I am ready to drop the bucks on a Semi-Auto 308 it will be the new Springfield SOCOM 16 or M1A Loaded model.
I have very lil experience with FALs but fired and played with a lot of M1A variants. You can pick up a M1A for around 1500.00 if you shop around. You can use them for a battle rifle or for long range shooting if you wish.0 -
Ramtinxxl;
The M-14, M1 family are excellent rifles. The FN-FAL was every bit it's equal. there are things about the FAL I like better then the M-14 family. The vertical grip, quickly adjustable gas system to accomadate ammo variations,bullet wieghts. The DSA FAL's are about as good as it gets, unless of course you find an original FN product. Remeber FN, Liegh and Herstel, were the manufacture of choice for John M. Brownings legendary guns, like the superposed and A-5 shotguns.They are/were as good as any and better than most. Probably explians there long and wide service record around the world. The FAL was no exception. Century FAL's are hit and miss, and it gors down hill from there. The CETME from DSA is another good rifle in .308. Again other rebuilders can be hit or miss, Century has had more than their share of problem rifles. Avoid any rifle bearing the Hess or Vulcan name. That includes M-14 variants. Hess went out of business (for good reason) and returned as Vulcan. Very spotty on quality, mostly less than desirable. I am lucky enough to own two FN manufactured FAL's. I would put them up against any military rifle of the period, including our own. Like the M-14 Family, they can be tricked out for match work, etc. But like the M-14, its heart and sole is a battle rifle. The Russian Dragunov SVT in .308 or the original 7.62x54 is a pretty awesome rifle. Capable of extreme accuracy at pretty long shots. Being born a semi-auto, it comes to this country as isssued. FAL's and M-14's being selct fire, have to be de-milled to permantly restrict F/A firing. No such problem with the Dragunov. The 26 inch, chrome lined barrel puts the shots on target from short to long range. A standard Romak 3 comes with the original military scope and mount, in either warsaw or nato calibration. I have a Romak and a Russian. The Russian's tend to be a bit spendy on price. M-14, M1, M1A's run from $900 to a couple of grand, FAL's from DSA, around $900 to $1300, Dragunov's the ROMAK-3 is agout $800, Russian SVT- about$1500+, (hard to find.) CETME's from DSA $500, Century Arms CETME $350 to $400. My personal ranking, FAL, M-14, Dragunov, a distant forth CETME. The FAL, M-14-M-1, and Dragunov, are all top notch battle/tactical/sniper arms. Any one should give good service and much shooting enjoyment. Just my two cnets.
Kill all the lawyers and the world will be much better for it.0 -
Python,
Are you referring to the Hess that was here in the Twin Cities? The reason I ask is I know a guy who works for him. His CETME worked great. So good I went out and got one. I've had nothing but problems with it. I'm so disgusted with it I won't even go work on it.
We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>0 -
The most economical .308 auto's are the Century Cetme/G-3. They run $400-$500. I have one (G-3) and it has been great. However, I know some people have been less satisfied with theirs. Magazines for these are dirt cheap (I picked up 4 20 rounders for $25). Next would be the FAL's, which I have seen for as little as $900. M1A or AR-10, both will run ~$1300 for base models. Magazines will be ~$40/ each for 20 rounders.
I have recently ordered an AR-10 S.O.F., I will give a report once it arrives. It was $1399.
It's easy to spot liberals-they are the ones who have no assets to protect and need every handout they can get. They have forbeyed themselves ascendence to a productive lifestyle.0 -
Sandwarrior;
Hess, at one time built a variety of rifles, FAL's, CETME's, AK's,,,, from parts kits, Like most other builders. Hess was plagued with problamatic rifles, due in no small part, to less than stellar recievers and spotty parts fitting. I confess I have an early Hess FAL. It runs perfectly and has never had a jam or stoppage in over 4000 rounds. The reciever on this rifle was fitted and finished perfectly, it is also an FN product. I have worked on dozens of others than were anything but.
Most I had to replace the upper reciever to restore proper function. Hess as I understand it, it no more. Vulcan arms is the latest incarnation. Same quality problems, same functional problems.I have several in the rack right now. I will once again repalce the recievers with one of quality manufacture and they will run right again. The parts used to assemble the rifles is the same the other builders use. The problems have been the recievers, in my experience.Dimintioal variances, long or short reciever, heat treating problems causing the reciever to stretch.
A person would be money ahead to by an Styre STG-58 kit and a DSA reciever, and putting the rifle together himselfand have it headspaced. Your CETME likely suffers the same problem, I would bet a reciever swap would get it up and running. I know it's an anoyence, but, it the thing I've found most on Hess rifles.
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
Python,
Are you referring to the Hess that was here in the Twin Cities? The reason I ask is I know a guy who works for him. His CETME worked great. So good I went out and got one. I've had nothing but problems with it. I'm so disgusted with it I won't even go work on it.
We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>
Kill all the lawyers and the world will be much better for it.0 -
You've had alot of good info provided on much of what is out there. But what you haven't told us is what your expectations are for this rifles abilities. A long barrel sniper quality rifle is very different from a combat carry. Do you demand 1" at 200yds or 6", my HK production SR-9 will hold 1.5" to 2" at 200yds, my re-constructed L1A1(FAL) will hold close to that. But the Fals don't mount optics nearly as well as the HKs. For the money the long barrel .308 AK varients are probably your best bet, but I don't know how good their accuracy is. In general always buy a rifle made by a primary manufacturer not an after market rehash of a parts set. Unless you are willing to hassel the brake in and trouble shooting. Except for nostalgia reasons I wouldn't be buying a M1A type rifle, as surplus machine gun ammo often can be more the that action wants to handle, long term. 0 -
RAM...Get the M1A in a National Match configuration. You can achieve truly superb accuracy with it and the 168 grBTHP match round. And you can enter it in any number of National Match competitions around the country to see how YOU stack up against the competition. The other rifles mentioned are wonderful "SHTF" and "Red Dawn" fantasy weapons; but you can't use them at the National Matches.....I have yet to see any Dragunov's at Camp Perry on the 1000 yard line....maybe they were there I must have just missed them!! But they didn't win anything!!![}:)]
The other thing is that the United States Military has spent large dollars on attempting to achieve maximum accuracy with the 7.62 NATO round in its M-14's...you are the beneficiary of that research when you shoot with one of them. Now if you just want spray and pray accuracy any number of many lesser rifles will suffice. Beach0 -
For accuracy look at M1A National Match or maybe AR10A4 (I'll let you know after I break mine in)
For reliability nothing beats HK91, (I have heard PTR-91 is best HK91 clone), the trigger job I just had done on my HK91 made a huge improvement. My HK91 can handle ammo that chokes any other 308.
The adjustable gas system on FAL is more flexable then M1A, but HK91 action is much better then any gas system. DSA is supposed to make good FAL's.
Hesse and Century FAL, L1a1 and HK clones are marginal, I've got Century L1A1 it seems to work fine, but it will never be a quality rifle.
JR0
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