Anyone tried the Kel-tec .223 folding rifle?
I have been looking at this for a while and it looks mighty sweet. Anyone have any experience with one? Also, I dont know much about the .223 caliber except that it is a popular law enforcement load so any helpful info on that would be appreciated as well(is it good for plinking, etc.....).
Monkey fact for the day:
Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with stinky finger!!
Monkey fact for the day:
Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with stinky finger!!
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Never tried that gun, though I was actually pleasantly suprised by Kel-Tec's similar folding Sub-2000 9mm carbine in terms of its accuracy, light weight and portability. I'd imagine the .223 rifle isnt all that different with its main advantages being also light weight and foldability.
Oversimplifying a bit, the .223 round is the round the M16 military rifle is chambered for. *For a rifle round*, its not all that powerful, but it makes up for lack of power in terms of accuracy, low cost, ready availability and smaller size (meaning lower weight per cartridge, and ability to put a LOT of them into a magazine). The .223 is still substantially more powerful than just about any pistol round with the exception of the speciality pistol rounds designed for large game.
The .223 is definitely an adequate round for property defense, and shooting smaller animals (eg dogs, coyotes, etc), but its not appropriate for hunting larger game (ie deer or bigger).
Also, in general, rifles make poor indoor defense weapons as they are loud, relatively bulky, and their ammo tends to penetrate through walls, etc.0 -
I am going to have to disagree with beantownshootah in that the 223 is pleanty powerfull enough for Texas sized deer. If you cant kill a deer with a 223 then you dont need to be shooting at them with any gun. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by purebreedcolt
I am going to have to disagree with beantownshootah in that the 223 is pleanty powerfull enough for Texas sized deer. If you cant kill a deer with a 223 then you dont need to be shooting at them with any gun.
Agreed, I use a .308 but would take a deer with a .223 if I needed too, poor shot placement is a rotten excuse for using a "bigger" gun. If some hunters could keep their panties in a wad when they see a good buck and just relax untill they can hold the crosshairs right where their supposed to and take a relaxed, proper, trigger pull, nobody would need a .300winmag to take whitetail at a reasonable range.0 -
quote:Originally posted by purebreedcolt
I am going to have to disagree with beantownshootah in that the 223 is pleanty powerfull enough for Texas sized deer. If you cant kill a deer with a 223 then you dont need to be shooting at them with any gun.
Look, I don't want to start a pissing contest over this, but that's just silly. Why draw the line at .223? Why not a .44 magnum? Why not a .357 magnum? How about a .45 ACP carbine? Can't a "real" hunter bag a deer with a .22LR?
Yes, its possible to take deer humanely with a .223 if you are a good hunter, a good shot, and you have self-control and know what you are doing. As above, you can probably even get away with even less powerful cartridges if all else is right.
Heck some people have even been known to successfully hunt deers with this stone-age thing called a "bow and arrow", which apparently is not only less accurate than a rifle, with less range, but it even has less stopping power!
But for this guy who is asking just what a .223 is good for. . .NO WAY should he be using that underpowered round on deer (or bigger)!
Furthermore, with so many significantly better hunting rounds easily available, and so many rifles better designed for hunting (and even cheaper than the Kel-Tec folding carbine, eg a Winchester 94) a .223 (particularly THIS .223) would be a poor choice for deer hunting. That round was simply not designed for that purpose, and just because you can get away with it that doesn't make it a good first choice.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by purebreedcolt
I am going to have to disagree with beantownshootah in that the 223 is pleanty powerfull enough for Texas sized deer. If you cant kill a deer with a 223 then you dont need to be shooting at them with any gun.
Look, I don't want to start a pissing contest over this, but that's just silly. Why draw the line at .223? Why not a .44 magnum? Why not a .357 magnum? How about a .45 ACP carbine? Can't a "real" hunter bag a deer with a .22LR?
Yes, its possible to take deer humanely with a .223 if you are a good hunter, a good shot, and you have self-control and know what you are doing. As above, you can probably even get away with even less powerful cartridges if all else is right.
Heck some people have even been known to successfully hunt deers with this stone-age thing called a "bow and arrow", which apparently is not only less accurate than a rifle, with less range, but it even has less stopping power!
But for this guy who is asking just what a .223 is good for. . .NO WAY should he be using that underpowered round on deer (or bigger)!
Furthermore, with so many significantly better hunting rounds easily available, and so many rifles better designed for hunting (and even cheaper than the Kel-Tec folding carbine, eg a Winchester 94) a .223 (particularly THIS .223) would be a poor choice for deer hunting. That round was simply not designed for that purpose, and just because you can get away with it that doesn't make it a good first choice.
Well said, I agree with both of you, as I stated above It can be done BUT shouldn't the first choice.0 -
anyone shooting deer with a 223 is a irresonsable hunter. its against the law in va, and ive seen people lose alot of deer with a 243 cal. with good shots? 0 -
You go Beansie boy . Excellent post ! 0 -
plain and simple bull poop , if you can't kill a deer with any of the calibers stated on this post you have no business being in the woods 0 -
groovin,
Although I haven't had any hands-on experience with the SU-16 (I hope to change that soon), from what I've heard, it's a good little truck gun.
Accuracy isn't that hot, but it wasn't meant to be a target-shooting rifle.
It's also supposedly super-reliable and fun to shoot - two things that make me say, "Why the heck not?" It's affordable, takes GI mags, and is a nice alternative to the MIni-14 if you're looking for a cheap, dependable .223.
Like I said, I haven't handled one yet, but it makes the short list of "buy next" guns for me.0 -
I wont address the issue of hunting deer with the .223 since that was not the question.
I will address the original question about the Keltec SU 16. I have one and like it. It is a very handy, light weight, reasonably accurate, little rifle. It shoots about 2" groups at 100yds which is fine for a car gun.
Mine likes the Canadian Thermold mags, works perfectly with them. I have had a few mag related failures to feed with the 30rd aluminum GI mags.
Joe
"Never let school interfere with your education"0 -
thanks everyone, I am saving up for one now![^]
Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with stinky finger!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Laredo Lefty
I wont address the issue of hunting deer with the .223 since that was not the question.
I will address the original question about the Keltec SU 16. I have one and like it. It is a very handy, light weight, reasonably accurate, little rifle. It shoots about 2" groups at 100yds which is fine for a car gun.
Mine likes the Canadian Thermold mags, works perfectly with them. I have had a few mag related failures to feed with the 30rd aluminum GI mags.
Joe
"Never let school interfere with your education"
I agree 100%. I have been keeping an eye, and an ear open on this rifle. Thinking on getting one for when I start my motorcycle/camping trips again. I like the "true" folding design of this gun, and I am happy with the manufacturers reputation. I have a folding stock Mini 14, but I think this gun may have an easier carrying potential, etc.
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"If it ain't broke, fix it anyway... make it better!" (RadCat)0
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