M1A Sniper variant in Iraq
I've seen video of U.S. soldiers in Iraq using a sniper rifle with a M1A action, synthetic pistol grip stock with an adjustable comb on the stock. Is this a military/LE only model or a custom build? Or is it the military version of SA's "Whitefeather" M1A?
Please clarify for me and give an estimate price.
Please clarify for me and give an estimate price.
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Sounds like the so called Designated Marksman Rifle which the Marines have been using for the past few years for tasks which need more range and accuracy than the standard M16 service rifle but do not warrant the use of a dedicated sniper, like explosive ordnance destruction. The Army has used an M14 service rifle for that purpose and it has been given the desigantion EOD M14 NSN 1005-01-235-3311. There are not a lot of M14s left floating around but the Corps managed to locate several thousand gathering dust at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Crane, IN and cherry picked the best of the bunch as the basis for their new rifle.
Although the M14 service rifle was designed to allow for selective fire, in field service most M14s had their selectors restricted to semi automatic and these Designated Marksman Rifles (DMR) also have the full auto feature restricted. The walnut of birch service stocks were replaced by special McMillian fiberglass stocks with adjustable cheek pieces and pistol grips. The stocks are generally gray-green in color, are rubber coated and come with a adjustable butt plate with recoil pad. The USGI service barrels were tossed away and Krieger Barrels was contracted to provide medium-heavy match barrels which were fitted at Quantoico by armorers who also reworked the rifles action and trigger. The optic selected is a Leupold Mark 4 M-3 10X using GGG rings and mount which allows the standard iron sights to remain on the rifle. A Harris bi pod attaches to the stock and the standard sling swivles remain. Effective range is said to be 800 meters and the entire package cost a fraction of what a specially designed DMR would cost the tax payers if built from the ground up. Your cost would be the sum total of an M1A NM, the custom McMillian stock, Krieger barrel, Mark 4 scope, rings and mount, and Harris bi pod...plus gun smithing charges to put the package together.
"Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
Mark T. Christian0 -
The M14 came into service in the late 1950's. NM M14 prooved to be more accurate than the NM M1 so there developed a civilian demand for them. Since the BATFE ruled that the M14 receivers were made to have a full auto capability, they could never be sold as surplus, at least not to civilians. To fill the demand for a civilian copy of the M14 a civilian copy called the M1A was produced. Now I have seen the M14 referred to as a military version of the M1A. The opposite is acctually true. End of military rifle history lesson for the day. 0 -
gents..the cherry picked sniper guns from crane are called M-21's. all the M-14's may have been discontinued in 1970, but they are all still around and still very much in use in different ways. matter of fact ,the USMC and navy still have most of them. ive seen them and used them. they are mostly 10/1 4R mcmillan bedded stocks. since the 168gr bthp are now allowed by geneva to be used in combat, they are the prefered round with the 173gr special ball as the backup. some have special modifications for certain platoons use.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction. NRA certified instructor.0 -
The Rifle, Sniper 7.62mm M21 is an Army sniper rifle variant of the M14 service rifle and were never adopted for use by the USMC or the Navy. The M21 was born at the U.S. Army Weapons Command at Rock Island and is classified as NSN 1005-00-179-0300. The Navy has its own version which is named Rifle, Sniper 7.62mm M14 (Navy) and is type classified as NSN 1005-01-106-8975. There are at least 11 other classification types for the M14 service rifle, which has been Standard A in the U.S. armed forces since 1957.
"Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
Mark T. Christian0 -
So the answer is that it's not an M1A at all. The closest you can get is a Springfield Armoury M21 Tactical. Lists at $3086.00US with a steel barrel. $3448.00US for one with a Krieger stainless Steel Barrel. 0 -
uh...tell that to the armorers on the crane van! and tell that to the GM's at the teams who clean repair and load them out for platoon detachments. all the dope books ive handled all said m21. unless im blind.
besides....all the specs of an m21 can be duplicated and have been duplicated on existing 14's from crane.
i mean how hard is it to drop a chrome lined heavy bbl in? or float a glass stock? or glue down the heat shield? or enlarge the flash hole? or polish a gas piston? or put NM sights on? or put a scope mount on? or do a trigger job to? or weld 'or screw' in a gas system assy?
but to stay on the original posters question, ive seen those newer stocks you mentioned on tv, but have not seen them on any of our guns as of 97. they look like a fancy E2 stock.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction. NRA certified instructor.0 -
Aren't we talking about the same Navy who call their 7.62mm NATO caliber M1 Garand the US Rifle, Navy, Mk2, Model 1 instead of 7.62mm M1 service rifle? No chance that your blind bobski, you could spot a High Standard automatic at 500 meters!
"Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
Mark T. Christian0 -
I have been out of the Corps for a while but had a drinking buddy that was an armorer and I "was allowed in" one day to wait a few minutes for him to check out and I saw hundreds of the (M-14, and M-21) rifles sitting in racks. My friend at the time told me they get checked out from time to time. Mostly for the rifle range in connection with the Marine Corps Shooting Teams.
mow.0 -
Thanks for all the input and explanations. By the way (Herschel), I know the difference between the M14 and the M1A. I also know the M14 was around first and the M1A is the civilian model. I made an honest symmatec error in the original posting. Your "military rifle history lesson" didn't even answer the question. 0 -
Geez, I can't even spell symantec 0 -
unless garands have 20 rds mags, mark![:D] in the 90's, m21's were made up mostly with black mcmillan stocks and got the name 'the black gun.' when the 300 winmag and 50 cal were offered, the 21 started to fall out of favor. most were turned in except for the rare few who desired them. my team had 5 of them on loan from crane. there are still lots of 14's on navy ships to this day. i will ask some of the guys at the next reunion who makes that stock. if i remember, i will post it.[;)]
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction. NRA certified instructor.0
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