.223 ammo
Seemed to make sense that I start a fresh thread on this topic. I'm learning that there are apparently three types of .223 ammo. The civilian load, called .223 Remington, the military load, the 5.56mm used in the M-16 and it's descendants, and another one that is called something like .223 Winchester magnum. I gather that the latter is apparently a different round and is NOT interchangeable with the first two. But I also am learning that, while you can shoot the civilian rounds in a rifle chambered for the military cartridge, the reverse is not adviseable due to the greater pressures of the 5.56 round. But the military rounds are what make shooting the .223 caliber so much more economical. That being the case, what should you look for when buying a .223 rifle to make sure you can shoot both the military and the civilian rounds?
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Is .223 (5.56x45mm) ammo interchangable with .223 (5.45x39mm) ammo.
In particular, will they both fire safely and efficiently in a ruger.223 ranch rifle or a bushmaster .223??0 -
I've never seen a civilian modern huntingrifle, that couldn't interchange between civilian ammo and military surplus-ammo.
So if the rifle is of new date, and made by a fairly well known maker - I wouldn't worry.
Neither in .223Rem/5.56Nato or .308Win/7.62Nato civilian/military ammo.
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It will be marked "5.56" on barrel, good for both 5.56 and .223 Rem. 0 -
Jazz, there is a diffrence between teh 223 which was originally a commercial load, and the 5.56 metric designation which is typically a military load. The military uses the metric designation so as to comply with nato.
The lowdown is that 5.56 IS slightly longer than 223. and is usually loaded a little hotter.
You can shoot 223 and 5.56 out of a barrel marked 5.56. DO NOT shoot 5.56 out of a barrel marked 223.
typically 223 is a little more accurate than 5.56, that is why some folks get the 223 barrels.
I am certain that others on here have much more info, but that is how "i" understand it.
It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.0 -
Check here for all 5.56 and .223 ammo issues:
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff
You will see there is a difference and one that needs to be noted depending on what you are shooting.....0 -
I have a cz 527,and shoot 5.56 sometimes.Never had a problem,but I did put a 5.56 in, locked down the bolt, and then unloaded the live round and examined it to see if the bullet had made contact with the rifling.If so then wouldn't the pressures go WAY up?
Teach them young ! Teach them often !
God bless America!0 -
quote:Originally posted by jazzman111
Seemed to make sense that I start a fresh thread on this topic. I'm learning that there are apparently three types of .223 ammo. The civilian load, called .223 Remington, the military load, the 5.56mm used in the M-16 and it's descendants, and another one that is called something like .223 Winchester magnum. I gather that the latter is apparently a different round and is NOT interchangeable with the first two. But I also am learning that, while you can shoot the civilian rounds in a rifle chambered for the military cartridge, the reverse is not adviseable due to the greater pressures of the 5.56 round. But the military rounds are what make shooting the .223 caliber so much more economical. That being the case, what should you look for when buying a .223 rifle to make sure you can shoot both the military and the civilian rounds?
The .223 Winchester magnum you speak of is the .223 WSSM. It is not even close to the .223 rem. The .223 WSSM is shorter than the .223 rem., but nearly twice the diameter.
As far as military 5.56mm, the biggest reason most bolt-gun shooters don't like it is simply case volume. Military brass is thicker so that it will not expand into the chamber walls of a hot machine gun to the point where it won't extract reliably. This makes military brass a poor choice for reloading. As far as it being hotter than commercial ammo, BS. The old M193 ball ammo launched a 55 grain bullet at 3250 FPS. Not exactly a nuke. The maximim average pressure for this round is 52,000 PSI. SAAMI standard for the .223 Rem. is also 52,000. The same goes for the newer 62 grain loading (M855).
The only other difference between 5.56mm NATO and .223 is not in case dimension, but in loaded overall lenngth. The maximum COAL for the 5.56x45mm is 2.226" This is the same as the maximum SAAMI spec for .223 rem., but most factory loaded .223 rem. has a max COAL of 2.210" So I suppose if the magazine tolerance in you gun was very close, this may present a problem. But I would think so.
So, in summary, there is no reason that you can't use 5.56 NATO rounds in your .223. But with the availability of relatively inexpensive commercial stuff, why bother?
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ker2222 posted the link to the site where SAAMI specs are stated and then crossed over to a list of cartridged NOT compatable according to their rules. Now, if you choose to ignore the controlling body for ammunition safety and production in the United States, then so be it. Please read the warning below and take a look at the print.
Fact: SAAMI specifically warns against the use of 5.56mm ammo in .223 chambers. The .223 SAAMI specification was originally made with bolt rifles in mind.
Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat or leade and less freebore than the military chamber. Shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more.
The military chamber is often referred to as a "5.56 NATO" chamber, as that is what is usually stamped on military barrels. Some commercial AR manufacturers use the tighter ".223" (i.e., SAAMI-spec and often labeled ".223" or ".223 Remington") chamber, which provides for increased accuracy but, in self-loading rifles, less cycling reliability, especially with hot-loaded military ammo. A few AR manufacturers use an in-between chamber spec, such as the Wylde chamber. Many mis-mark their barrels too, which further complicates things. You can generally tell what sort of chamber you are dealing with by the markings, if any, on the barrel, but always check with the manufacturer to be sure.
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff
CENTERFIRE RIFLE
In Rifle Chambered For
Do Not Use These Cartridges
*** 223 Remington
5.56mm Military
222 Remington
30 Carbine
http://www.saami.org/unsafe3.htm0 -
Good info nononsense and others. I am planning on getting a rifle in 223 for my wife and chose that caliber for ease of ammo purchasing thinking she would be able to fire 5.56 through it as well. I'm glad I just happened to be surfing and came across this thread. Thanks again. [;)] 0
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