5MM Rem Question
I have seen alot of comparison between the 22Win Mag and the 17HMR, but what about a comparison between the 5mm Remington and the 17 HMR. How do they compare? I know the ammo for the 5mm is absurdly expensive, but what about performance? Anybody have any idea? As far as the price of ammo goes, I remember when I first bought my 5mm back in the late 70's. A box of 50 rounds was about 9 bucks. Then it went to about 15 bucks. Then it went to about 25 bucks, and then it was gone altogether. I couldn't find it anymore. Now that I am hooked up with Gunbroker, there's quite a bit left out there, it's just a matter of how much do I want to shoot the gun. I know one thing. The first time I shot a squirrel with the 5mm, I couldn't believe how dead that squirrel was. It sure seemed to me that it made a monkey out of a 22 mag, but maybe I was just imagining it. Anyway, thanks.
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Gary,
From another forum:
While the .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire has taken the rimfire market by storm, a rimfire cartridge over three decades older beats it, hands down. The Power-Lokt hollow point is .204" in diameter and it weighs 38 grains. Case dimensions are about 18% larger at the base (.280" vs .240") but .034" shorter than the "Johnny come lately".
Here are the ballistics:
Velocity @ Muzzle: 2100 fps. Energy: 372 ft. lbs.
Velocity @ 100 yd: 1605 fps. Energy: 217 ft. lbs.
Velocity @ 150 yd: 1400 fps: Energy: 165 ft.lbs.
The 17 HMR's muzzle velocity of 2550 fps. yields a muzzle energy of 245 ft. lbs. That is a difference of 127 ft.lbs. or 52% more muzzle thump. That's a huge advantage for a cartridge that failed miserably in the 1970's.
Few outdorsmen know what this cartridge is. Even fewer have ever seen one, or the rifle that fires it. Needless to say, it is very rare to encounter someone who has actually fired one.
This mysterious cartridge is the Remington 5MM Rimfire Magnum (I can just hear my fellow old-timers yawning). Remington produced a very trim bolt action rifle: the clip fed 591M and the tubular fed 592M. It hit the shelves in 1970 and died just a few years later. Why? It certainly wasn't because it was an under performing rimfire. The only rimfire competion to the 5MM was the 22 magnum. It launched a 40 grain bullet at 2000 fps but velocity fell off rather sharply when compared to the 5MM's aerodynamic 38 grain Power-Lokt hollow point.
Unlike the 17 HMR, marketing was almost non-existant. With only Remington producing the ammunition and a single bolt action rifle, it was gone before most sportsmen knew it even existed. Ammunition cost didn't help either. At a time when a box of 100 22 LR's cost 79 cents, 5MM ammo cost $3.95 for a box of 50, and 22 magnum ammo cost half that.
Well, I have rambeled on long enough about my favorite rimfire. I still own and shoot a model 592M. If you think a squrrel or a water filled plastic bottle explodes when hit with the 17 HMR, you should see what happens when it is hit with 52% more energy.
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?p=124198#post124198
This is not a direct answer to your question but rather it is an alternative to the 5mm ammunition problem.
INTRODUCTION TO THE 5MM CRAIG
What is it?
The 5mm Craig is a wildcat cartridge, which externally is dimensionally identical to the original 5MM Remington Magnum, except for the primer pocket and flash hole. It will chamber in Remington 5MM models 591 and 592 and Thompson/Contender 5mm barrels with no alteration to the chamber. The wall thickness at the neck is the same as the original to allow 5mm bullet seating. The wall of the rest of the cartridge is thicker than the original. Velocity with our 30 grain bullet goes up to 2350 fps: original velocity of factory ammo was 2080 fps with a 38 grain bullet.
How do we do it?
We have the bolt modified by cutting the firing pin slot in the bolt head a little deeper than the original. This work is done very slowly in order to preserve the hardness of the steel. A new firing pin is fabricated from tool steel, hardened by oil quench and tempered.
What about loading components and data?
Brass Cartridge Cases - Cases are machined from 360 half-hard brass, necks are flame annealed.
Bullets - Standard bullets are jacketed spitzer: 30 grain JHP Slick-Silver.
Loading Die Sets - CH4D custom die sets include the shell holder.
Loading Data - A chart is supplied with each order for Winchester 296, Accurate Arms # 9, Hercules 2400, IMR 4756 and IMR 4227 powders.
Primers Recommended - CCI Bench Rest small rifle (BR 4), CCI 450 mag small rifle.
Powder Funnels - Our custom aluminum funnels work very well.
What about Safety?
We have tested several converted bolts for over several years, put hundreds of rounds through several rifles and have not experienced or had reports of any failures or other safety problems with converted bolts. According to Remington, these firearms were built to very high quality control standards. The chamber and extraction system were specially designed to safely function with the high pressures generated by this cartridge (SAAMI specification called for 37,000 psi with a maximum product average of 42,900 psi, and a maximum proof pressure of 62,000 psi). However, this is an after-market, wildcat conversion with no connection to Remington, and is not sanctioned by anyone. In short, we use it ourselves and believe it to be safe, but stress that extreme caution must be used just as you would do with any firearm or handloading product. With respect to the brass cartridges, they are machined, and are not as hard as drawn brass; it is possible to load cartridges hot enough to cause primer pocket expansion to the point of allowing gas leakage, so the recommended loading maximums must be strictly followed.
What is the Fire Lapping Set?
The Fire Lapping Set listed on the price sheet is for uniforming the rifle bore and produces a mirror finish on the inside. It consists of a series of laboratory grits in paste form (220 to 1200), with 2 steel plates. Bullets are rolled in the grit prior to loading, wiped clean, then loaded, fired through the barrel. This is easier than conventional hand-lapping, and results in improved accuracy and easier cleaning. The kit will lap 10 - 12 rifles or pistols. In rifles we lapped, accuracy was improved by 30% to 50% at 100 yards.
How can you order?
You can mail it, FAX it or use e-mail, or call in person. Please be sure to include the expiration date if using Visa or MasterCard.
How long does it take?
Please allow 2-3 weeks after we receive the order for return shipment, we will do it as fast as we can, our suppliers are trying hard to keep up. Turn-around time may be 4 weeks from the time you send it.
http://www.jesseshunting.com/articles/guns/category8/53.html
http://www.certech.net/5_intro.htm
http://www.certech.net/Components.htm
There is also the suggestion that Old Western Scrounger has a new run of 5mm Rimfire ammunition made every so often, but you will have to check this out with them.
www.ows-ammunition.com
Then there is a Yahoo discussion group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Remington5mm/0 -
I had a chance to buy a 591M and 6 boxes of ammo for $190 about 5 years back. Should have and kick myself now for not, but I was afraid I would run out of ammo and that'd be all she wrote. If I ever see another, I'm grabbin' it.
It's easy to spot liberals-they are the ones who have no assets to protect and need every handout they can get. They have forbeyed themselves ascendence to a productive lifestyle.0 -
Thank goodness I bought 100's of boxes of 5MM back in the 80's - now I can shhot what I like with the MANY rifles that I have. What a GREAT small game round - the .17HMR and .22M don't stack up to this "obsolete" round! Squirrels, rabbits and Turkeys "drop" when hit...period! I wouldn't trade mine for anything. 0 -
I wish Remington would bring back that round (5mm Remington)
If I remember right there was a problem with the small bore getting fouled and affecting the accuracy in the 591 592 rifles but it looks like they found the right powder combinations to keep the fouling down to minimum, next to nothing.
Bring the 5MM back (I am a big Remington fan) [8D]0 -
Around 1981, I believe it was I owned & was a big fan of the Rem 5mm. I had one of each rifle, clip & tube feed think they were 591 & 592 models. Found ten boxes of shells in an old hardware store outside of Chicago that the owner was happy to sell me for $50.00 after we dusted them off. About a year later went in a gun shop in Chatt Tn looking for more shells and was informed they were now obsolete. They had two boxes @ $50.00 ea. Told the owner I wasn't about to pay that just for a plicker & would he take my rifles & remaining shells in on trade. I walked out with a NIB 70 series Colt Gold Cup & NIB Colt .22 conversion kit. Still have both NIB. Guess that was a pretty good trade. 0 -
I just saw the guys over on rimfire central talking about the 5mm and one guy said he talked to someone at Remington today and maybe they were thinking of making ammo again. He even gave #'s to call. I have not tried them so.... 501-676-3161 or 501-676-4198 0 -
Wouldn't it be nice if Ruger offered their 10-22 mag with additional barrels. One in 5mm mag and one in 17 mag. I was going to reline my 5mm to 17 due to the ammo situation but I will wait a little longer to see if Remington will produce some. 0 -
To 09arg, thanks for the tele numbers. I am going to call them and put my 2 cents in for making some more ammo for that sweet little rimfire. It sure would help alot of people out by driving the price of ammo back down where a person can shoot a little more. To Clays, to each his own, but I think I would rather of had that 5mm than what you traded for, but hey everybody has their own pet for what they like to shoot. To MVP, I don't know if I've ever had a problem with fouling in my 5mm, but I've never ran alot of rounds through. The biggest problem I had with my 5mm was my own stupidity. I carried it behind the seat of my truck for a long time, and when I finally decided to take it out of the truck, I took it straight to the gunshop and had to have it reblued because it was so bad. An expensive lesson learned there. At the time that happened though, the gun was only worth about a hundred bucks, and now I've bought another one for 250, and it is used. Oh well I guess. 0 -
Hey 09arg, I called that number you posted. The number was for the Remington Ammunition plant in Arkansas. Anyway, I asked him about the rumor about making more ammo. The guy I talked said "no way..ain't happening, not now not ever." According to him, the equipment needed for the making of 5mm ammo has all been sold, although he didn't say to who. He also said the 5mm was a flop when it was first made, and said there wasn't any more interest in it today than back when. He did say though, that he has heard rumors that some company in Mexico was expressing an interest in making some ammo, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Geez, I wished somebody would make some. Heck, there is alot of other obsolete cartridges out there that must have enough interest for people to make ammo for it. 0
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