1911 frame,compensated slide/updated slide pics
I have a colt series 70 38 super slide with custom acompensator with a guide rod. I am interested in fitting it with a frame that has a good tight fit. i have a springfield 1911 that it fits on but it doesn't eject the shells. i think it fits too tight. I am on a buget so i would like to know that best frame that can be purchased for a good price. I would like to build a nice target pistol. I am not looking for a competiton grade frame. I would like to spend around $100-200 possibly, on jsut a plain frame. What would be a good triggar to install also. I guess i would just like you guys to give me some adivce on building a 1911.
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Before you go buying another frame try swaping out ejectors on the Springfield Frame. The ejectors made specifically for 38 Super and 9mm are longer then those made for the 45 ACP, ( for positive ejection ).
There easy to change, as there is only one pin that secures them in the frame. Drift that pin out, and your in fat city.
Brownells www.brownells.com carries all kinds of ejectors. I would advise to get the aftermarket ones rather then the original one by Colt. The Colt ejectors are a interference fit rather slip fit and are a bugger to change.
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There are many things that have to be right to get Parts to all work together in any 1911 type pistol . take all Parts out of your slide / top half. Take all parts out of frame Now take the slide and mount on frame . It should move from front to back without a bind. If there is a slight bind you can lap it in with JB bore cleaner . Make sure you clean it all of both slide and frome when you finish. If you have the money I would get a CASPIAN frame but Springfield are also good . Some frames like ESSEX , RANGER etc have good ones and bad ones if you have not put 1911 style pistols together go with good parts it will cost less in the long run . "PRAISE THE HARD-BALL GUN" 0 -
Hey, Gun Guy-
Since you say you want to replace/install only a frame, I must assume you intend to keep the gun as a "custom compensated" .38 Super.
Well, partner, you got your work cut out for you as you have elected a "fuzzy eater" combination.
That set-up is widely used in the open class in IPSC, and a lot has been logged about its performance. For starters the forces created by the gases push the muzzle down prominently creating additional drag and interfering with extraction/ejection with normal recoil springs. Most shooters use rather hot loads, and even with these some use springs a low as ten pounds. Few set-ups will work properly with "factory-off-the shelf" ammo, unless you tune everything just right, and then the compensator will not be used to its potential.
But if you are looking for a fun plinker, just have some patience with it and your efforts will pay up.
One item to consider is that most of those "compensated .38 Super" set-ups used ramped barrels. Does yours? If so you must have a gunsmith cut/fit/modify your frame for that barrel's ramp system.
As for the make of the frame, you have quite a few options. I do recommend an Essex frame. They are very well made, and CNC machined to oversize gunsmith specs. I customarily use them in my custom guns along with Caspian, Les Baer, and others, and they hold up very well in all aspects, and are affordable.0 -
Here are some pictures of the slide. sorry they are so huge. The picture with the arrors are pointing to bushings that prevent me from taking the recoil spring out and dissasembling the slide. There is a bolt with an allen head at the end of the slide just under the barrel crown, but i have played with it and taken it out and i can't figure out what it is for. I have never built a 1911 before and don't know very much about them. Can you guys refer me to some web sites about this topic or give me some tips such as the ejector of a 45 being different than 38 super. Thanks. 0 -
You have a cone comp system with a reverse recoil sping plug. If you look at your last picture with the left arrow, you'll see a lip at the bottom of the slide. This lip holds the recoil spring plug and keeps it from shooting out the front of the slide. Usually, there's a hole drilled along the guide rod where you can insert a bent paperclip to contain the spring when the slide is on the gun and pulled to the rear (i.e., the spring is fully compressed). Since I think you said the slide won't fit on a frame, what you'll probably have to do is:
1. unscrew the front portion of the recoil spring guide rod (that allen wrench hole at the front of the slide). Since this didn't release the rear half of the recoil spring guide rod out the bottom of the slide, you'll probably have to go to step 2.
2. Remember that lip I mentioned where the arrow is pointing? Grab that with your fingernails or something and pull it rearward, compressing the recoil spring. When you pull it mostly rearward, you should be able to maneuver the reverse recoil spring plug, recoil spring, and recoil spring guide rod out as an assembly.
3. push the barrel link forward and pull the barrel out the front of the slide.0 -
I have mounted the slide to my Springfield 45 frame and it fired but the casing was not ejected from the chamber, and i think this is due to the diferent sized ejector that rufe-snow mentioned. since i don't want to punch out a pin and swap ejector every time i want to change slides i think i will look for a new frame to put the slide on. 0 -
Very interesting set-up. Have not seen one like that for a while now.
As M Polans illustrated you have a two piece guide rod, which is usually removed by anchoring the guide rod head from rotating and inserting the proper size allen wrench at the muzzle's end rod's allen socket. Once unscrewed, remove that front piece off from the front. If the remaining assembly does not come out, follow M Polans advice to remove rearwards the reverse guide rod plug. Normally, after the front section of the rod is removed a little bit of downwards pressure to clear the rods head as you pul it back allows the rear portion of the rod to come out. If that fails, removing/pulling back and out the reverse plug small lip to clear the slide should provide enough angle clearance for the rod to pivot and slide out. You could place long nose pliers between the coils close to the front and relieve some spring tension by pulling back the spring, which should help in pulling out the reverse plug against the spring tension.
By looking at your pictures, it illustrates something else that is of concern. The barrel's "feet" notch that normally would stop the barrel motion forward when the slide stop is installed through your barrel link (shown in your picture) has been altered to an angular shape. This "experimental" concept made to increase top "lugs" lock up, will stress the barrel link untill it stretches/breaks/fail/jams, as it has eliminated the forward travel stop of the barrel with the slide "stop" pin.
You have a standard, unreinforced chamber feed in your barrel, which will dictate low chamber pressures for your loads.
Did you get the entire gun, frame/slide? or just the slide assembly?
You have one of the earlier made (actually very well made) experimental compensators set-ups, while trying to get to where we are now, in the state of the art, so to speak. Can not tell how well it worked unless you have the entire "original" assembled gun. I experimented with something similar in the late '70's early '80's (without the feet "spikes") and worked well with factory ammo as the the amount of compensation/downwards-pressure was not that significant, and the barrel "cone" (no slide bushing) helped a lot with unlocking.
If you can get that barrel to lock-up properly without jams, you will be ok. Should you have to replace the barrel, it will open up a few cans of worms, as to what you will have to do to match components. But it could be remedied most likely throught the use of a new "threaded barrel". Nowlin and Clark make excellent "factory" threaded barrels that might thread to your cone and comp. Although when I look at your pictures it shows something "silvery" at the comp's muzzle, like a threaded or fitted cone or chamber to the front? To cut it short. If you can not use that barrel for whatever reason, and need to replace it, should the barrel be threaded into a "one piece" cone/comp - - this will be easier. Otherwise very likely you will have a 6" (six inches) threaded barrel, through a cone into a compensator. Determine the total barrel length before ordering. Brownells sells a threaded" Nowlin (ramped which would be better)in six inches length.
Keep us posted in your progress.0 -
Hello RAD CAT makes a good point about the bottom FEET locking lugs. I have never seen this done and would feel very uneasy about shooting this barrel . My suggestion would be to get someone like CLARK or another member of a 1911 pistol builders group to look at this unit before I spent money on a frame . 0 -
"You have a standard, unreinforced chamber feed in your barrel, which will dictate low chamber pressures for your loads."
Could you ellobrate more on this please.
My dad bough just the slide from a freind.
And what do you mean by getting the barrel to lock up properly without jams? Do you mean just the sucessful complete chambering of a round? Becasue it did this with no problems at all. Are there any other pictures that could help to further explain this interesting slide? Sorry if i sound dumb, but i don't have any exprience with custom handgun setups and smithing.
So your saying that shooting this pistol, there is a risk that the barrel link will be stressed, or it WILL be. Also is there a posibility that the origianl frame had some kind of modification to complement this slide as far as special feet.0 -
My response in italics.
quote:Originally posted by gunguy30_06
"You have a standard, unreinforced chamber feed in your barrel, which will dictate low chamber pressures for your loads."
Could you ellobrate more on this please.
Some aftermarket barrels (and now, some manufacturers like Para-Ordnance) have a bottom barrel lug that extends rearward underneath the barrel all the way back to form the feed ramp. The corresponding feed ramp area in a standard 1911 frame has to be milled out for this to fit. The advantage of this fully supported design is, more of the bottom of the case near the head is supported by the barrel. This isn't that important for the low pressure .45acp cartridge (though it offers a greater margin of safety), but it is VERY important for folks shooting high pressure cartridges like 9mm and .38 Super, which operate at over double the pressure of the .45acp. IPSC competitors also have a tendency to hotrod these calibers to .357 magnum pressure levels for for various reasons.
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So your saying that shooting this pistol, there is a risk that the barrel link will be stressed, or it WILL be. Also is there a posibility that the origianl frame had some kind of modification to complement this slide as far as special feet.
The barrel link will be stressed, but I wouldn't think it'd be stressed too much...basically only by the pressure the recoil spring exerts, plus the momentum of the slide returning to battery. Over time, the barrel link will probably stretch. You'll probably see your slide start to creep forward over time...the back of the slide won't be flush with the back of the frame. You'll periodically probably want to replace the link to prevent a loss of accuracy and reliability, but you might have to do that only once every few thousand rounds. As Radcat mentioned, it's possible the frame was modified to complement the barrel. I would envision a frame would have a wedge shaped ramp corresponding to the angle of the bottom barrel lug that would help achieve a tight, consistent lock up. I haven't seen such a set-up personally, but it would make sense.0 -
Hello me again. The link between the barrel and link pin is not intended to take any load all it does is move the back of the barrel down to unlock it from the slide the feet/bottom locking lugs should have an almost flat area about 1&1/2 degree of slope this assures that the slide and barrel move to the rear for a short distance before they unlock . The way the feet of your barrel are cut IMHO your slide and barrel would be allmost like a straight BLOWBACK operation and I for one would not want to shoot a 38 super in a straight blowback gun Thus my suggestion to let a 1911 pistolsmith look it over. 0
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