"silencer"....not a troll question
I want to add a fake silencer to an AR-style carbine....just for looks. Cause they do look cool, I think.
As long as it has no sound suppressing qualities and the barrel remains 16 inches, right?
My options are to slip one over a longer barrel or use a short barrel and install the silencer to stay at 16 inches.
Now my real question: What is meant by ATF's "permanently attached?"
As long as it has no sound suppressing qualities and the barrel remains 16 inches, right?
My options are to slip one over a longer barrel or use a short barrel and install the silencer to stay at 16 inches.
Now my real question: What is meant by ATF's "permanently attached?"
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if your barrel is 16" dont worry about that little phrase. If you have an 10" barrel for example, you will need to find a fake suppressor atleast 6" long, and it will have to be permantly welded to the barrel. Now, technically it can be welded off, but its attached in a manor that will not allow it to be removed by hand. Those muzzle breaks on post ban AR's used to be welded with silver I believe? 0 -
Permanently attached is specified by the BATFE Technologies Branch as either a full fusion weld or attached by use of high temperature silver solder. The use of industrial thread lockers (Locktight) is specifically prohibited.
"Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
Mark T. Christian0 -
I am not sure but I think real silencers are OK in Ohio. Put a real on on it and call it good. Just make sure you go through all the legal paper work to get it. I just got one for my .22 stuff and will be getting one for my ARs this summer.
John0 -
Nwcid,
Ohio might not care, but a few guys with dark sunglasses and BATF printed in six inch tall letters on their jackets do.0 -
MrG I am not sure what you are talking about but Silencers are perfectly legal if you do the correct paper work. Looking at the Gemtech ad here in SAR it says they are legal in Ohio. They list a total of 36 states where they ARE LEGAL. All of this is assuming you do the proper paper work.
John0 -
Yes, but, tomh, you can't just "slip" a fake silencer onto the end of your barrel. You're going to have to see a gunsmith to weld an adaptor to the end of your barrel, or have the barrel threaded. Proper alignment with the bore is critical, whether it is a real suppressor or a fake.
Neal
"Expensive fun isn't always fun, but it's always expensive."0 -
Thanks guys! That's exactly what I wanted to know.
Don't need em busting down the door over something stupid!0 -
This post is only with respect to having a true silencer (muffler).
Silencer???? Unless they have changed the Regs, you better be very careful about having anything that remotely resembles one...
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/pdf/quikgid2.pdf
Look under section VI.0 -
MFI makes a very realistic looking fake silencer that will slip over the barrel ... if your barrel is already 16" long you are good to go; no matter if it's threaded or not, you don't have to make any permenent modifications to your weapon and you have no worries!
Click on the pic for more info:
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Member Since 8/29/19990 -
300, they haven't changed the regs, your post points out that they are legal.
"My faith, my country and my family will guide me; nothing more, nothing less" -Gen. Tommy Franks
Jess Hoffman
Mooseyard Precision
LE Supply & Firearms
NRA Certified Instructor
Shawano, WI 541660 -
Like moos said they regs point out that it IS LEGAL since it says "Without registration". That is why I stated in my previous post that you have to do the proper paper work. If it was illegal I would not have admited to just purchasing one, and getting another soon. Also those are the "base" laws, they do not list the exemptions. You need to go to the main laws and read them in total to see what the exemptions are.
John0 -
I may be wrong but...
Aren't silencers NFA weapons and as such required to be registered thereunder? As I understand it, you have to do the required ATF paperwork and have the approval of the "local law enforcement official" to acquire one. If you (an individual) have an unregistered silencer it can't be registered or transferred and must be surrendered to the ATF.
My saying that you better be very careful is directed at the real problems (fines may be the least of them) surrounding NFA weapons -- again I could be misinterpreting something.
quote:Originally posted by Mooseyard
300, they haven't changed the regs, your post points out that they are legal.
"My faith, my country and my family will guide me; nothing more, nothing less" -Gen. Tommy Franks
Jess Hoffman
Mooseyard Precision
LE Supply & Firearms
NRA Certified Instructor
Shawano, WI 54166
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
Like moos said they regs point out that it IS LEGAL since it says "Without registration". That is why I stated in my previous post that you have to do the proper paper work. If it was illegal I would not have admited to just purchasing one, and getting another soon. Also those are the "base" laws, they do not list the exemptions. You need to go to the main laws and read them in total to see what the exemptions are.
John0 -
300-
The poster is asking about a FAKE silencer, one that is just for looks according to the original post ... there is nothing NFA about that!.
Member Since 8/29/19990 -
Fake Silencers do NOT alter the soundpattern significantly.
Fake silencers do NOT store or catch in any way, the gasses from the firing of the cartridge.
Real silencers dampen (reduces) noise significantly.
Real silencers temporarily stores and catches gasses to let these gasses expand inside the silencer - and thereby reduce the speed of which they excape into free air. By that - it reduces noice significantly.
Only devices that alters a guns soundperception are regulated by ATF.
Fake silencers are OK as nothing happens, other than change the looks of the weapon itself - they do not require ATF approval, taxstamp or other things.
Real silencers are restricted and needs ATF approval, tax-stamp.
If you want to use a fake silencer - you might be able to shorten the barrel in the process, if that's what you want to or need if the silencer puts on unwanted additional length to the weapon.
But then you still have to observe your gun is still fulfilling the required length of a barrel and total length.
If the barrel is too short, you can permanently mount a silencer to make up for it. Permanently mounted requires either welding or silversolder of some kind - quite probably high temperature silver solder.
Any further questions can easily be answered by a Class III dealer or the ATF homepage - or by directing a call to the ATF office.
I see this thread is about to get locked - I hope you have all the info you need.
Good luck too =o)
Don't do anything that I've allready done - That'd be just plain STOOOOOOPID.
The only way to get stoned??? - Whisky on the rocks offcourse.!!
Wanna see somethin' scary.?? Click here...0 -
Kimberkid:
My reply was to the "legal silencer" posts that found their way into the question...
quote:Originally posted by kimberkid
300-
The poster is asking about a FAKE silencer, one that is just for looks according to the original post ... there is nothing NFA about that!.
Member Since 8/29/19990 -
I'm glad that we finally got that straightened out!
Personally, I avoid anything that even looks remotely illegal or "cool" when it comes to guns. It's one thing for us to sit in front of our computers & trade quotes from ATF P 5300.4, but things are different in the real world. Most LEO's don't understand the fine distinction between real & fake suppressors, or real & fake machine guns. They are not going to stand around the squad car holding a debate with you; before you can say "But...but...but...", you will find yourself handcuffed & under arrest. With the homeland security concern in most locations, what LEO is going to chance on letting a possible terrorist run loose?
Sure, your lawyer will eventually get you released, but not without a lot of publicity (& expense) that you probably don't want.
Neal0 -
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
I'm glad that we finally got that straightened out!
Personally, I avoid anything that even looks remotely illegal or "cool" when it comes to guns. It's one thing for us to sit in front of our computers & trade quotes from ATF P 5300.4, but things are different in the real world. Most LEO's don't understand the fine distinction between real & fake suppressors, or real & fake machine guns. They are not going to stand around the squad car holding a debate with you; before you can say "But...but...but...", you will find yourself handcuffed & under arrest. With the homeland security concern in most locations, what LEO is going to chance on letting a possible terrorist run loose?
Sure, your lawyer will eventually get you released, but not without a lot of publicity (& expense) that you probably don't want.
Neal
This thread is about to get locked, but I have to heartily agree with that.
Its one thing to put a fake silencer on your fake-airsoft gun, which is intended to mimic a real gun, and (hopefully) nobody is ever going to mistake as as real gun. If the end of the can is painted bright orange, things end there.
But its quite another thing to deliberately modify an existing gun (indeed an evil "assault rifle" that many people think you shouldnt be allowed to own legally anyway) to look like an even more "evil" silenced rifle.
No good can possibly come of this. What if some A-hat decides to rat you out to the ATF? Even if you have done nothing wrong, personally, I'd rather not be in the position of having a bunch of no-sense-of-humor agents paint me as a lunatic, or attempt to press criminal charges "for fun".
How would you like them to confiscate your rifle for say 6 - 8 months, then make you fight red tape to get it back, while they are testing your "fake" silencer to make sure it is really fake? If they do that, you haven't a leg to stand on. What if they decide that your having a fake silencer is "probable cause" to search your home and place of business for "real" silencers or other contraband? I can think of a million ways to get harassed because of this, but not a lot of benefit.
I say either get the "real" McCoy, *LEGALLY*, or forget the whole thing. If you want the cool "look" go the airsoft route. . .hell you can probably even go full-auto that way.0 -
You might want to be careful with using even a fake suppressor.
As I recall, the long flash suppressors used on the old XM177 types weren't allowed on civilian AR's because they altered the sound. This was merely an open tube with standard bird cage flash suppressor size slots at the muzzle and didn't quieten things at all, but BATFE said it wasn't allowed just due to it altering the report.
I never did understand this one. My issued weapon with this setup was actually louder than a standard rifle.0
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