**Fully auto Closed Bolt mac?
I have been looking into purchasing a class 3 MAC 10 or 11 and came across a seller who claims to have a closed bolt version of a MAC 10/45 SMG. Is this even possible? I was under the impression that all MAC SMG's were open bolt. If having a closed bolt is a possiblitity, does this mean it is a conversion that was made past the cutoff date and there is a chance this guy can't legally sell it? (or own it!) I got the feeling he didn't really know what he was talking about. Thanks in advance.
"The name's Oxbig, Mike Oxbig"
"The name's Oxbig, Mike Oxbig"
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I have a Mac 10/45 SMG and it sure fires from an open bolt. Some REAL experts will chime in here but I think full auto requires an open bolt. I would be interested in knowing what he is asking for it. I've had mine about 4 years, NIB, and like to follow the prices.
cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>0 -
I can't answer your question, but...I have 2 suggestions to make, regardless of whether or not you buy this particular gun:
1. Request a photocopy of the ATF form for the gun (at this point in the transaction); it will tell you if the gun is legal & transferable, & if the "seller" really owns it. It is a reasonable request for a buyer to make.
2. Talk to your local Class III dealer first; he should be able to answer your Class III questions. Be sure to pick one who is also a Class III repair facility; he can examine & test (immediately) any gun you buy, so that you don't get a "problem" gun. You can only take delivery through him, so you may as well get the service that you going to pay him for.
Neal0 -
cbxjeff:
No, full auto does not mean it has to fire open bolt. A couple of quick examples of select fires that fire closed bolt: MP5, M14, M16, G3. Good reasons to do it both ways, cheaper do do open bolt.0 -
I realize a firearm isn't required to have an open bolt to function as a SMG, I'm just not sure if it's possible for the MACs to be FA with a closed bolt..
"The name's Oxbig, Mike Oxbig"0 -
Good point A J,
See, this is why I am only a guest here! I guess the operative word here is "cheaper". Let's face it, we aren't talking about top line firearms. Still in the case of the Mac, I don't know of closed bolt SMGs. I remember in the early 60's when I went into the service. Our piece was an M-1. Even though I had no firearm experience I could see right away that I could convert it with a hand file.
cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>0 -
i have a masterpiece arms mac-10,.. its semi-auto,.. fires from the closed position,.. however,..like cbx said it would not be to hard to make a few changes 0 -
You do not have to have an open bolt to fire full auto but it does help with extraction and ejection. One of the more recent examples is the G18 there is no way it can fire from an open bolt. And in some rifles when they get dirty the fire full auto by accident, the Charter Arms AR7 was notorious for this, and some 10/22's will do this also.
PJ
If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA Endowment Member, AF&AM, Shriner Life Member, A.B.A.T.E. of Illinois "Chicago Chapter" Founding Member & Board Member0 -
What is a G18? I'm assuming that the seller made a mistake, and that he meant it was an open bolt. After the ban of '86 Semi-auto Macs were still made Open bolt until the ATF made the ruling that guns had to fire from a closed bolt. That is when they started making closed bolt semi-auto versions. I can not image why someone would take a simple system like the MAC and try to convert it to fire closed bolt Full auto. Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't make sense.
"My faith, my country and my family will guide me; nothing more, nothing less" -Gen. Tommy Franks
Jess Hoffman
Mooseyard Precision
LE Supply & Firearms
NRA Certified Instructor
Shawano, WI 541660 -
Mooseguard.. Mac 10's were semi in open bolt form until somewhere around 1982. ATF made that ruling on RPB's and the Marietta factory in Georgia closed. Macs were remade elsewhere but were all closed bolt in semi. Thus you got the newer smaller Mac 11's that were 9mm and 45 cal. The old Macs in Mac 11's were .380 cal. Whereas the newer style .380 are referred as Mac 12's. 0 -
To the best of my knowledge and references, all Ingram/MAC SMG's fired from an open bolt. Only the semi's fired from a closed bolt.
If your seller has an Ingram closed bolt SMG, I would think it had been doctored on.
Stolen from, and with thanks, to Kiwibird0 -
Mooseyard, The G18 is a full-auto Glock 17. They were brought about after 1986 so I don't think they are in private hands but I've got a buddy that has a classIII dealers license and we play with one of his demos from time to time. Believe it or not it's actually very easy to control. 0
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