Please help me to identify this pistol.
We have in our possession a semi Auto pistol, simply marked M.A.C Modele 1935 S cal.7.65L. Matte black in color with black stippled plastic grips. 4" barrel, hammer block, expossed round exposed hammer. We have one bullet in our possession . Head stamped ATS over the top above the Centerfire primer and 1946 below the primer. The dementions are C.O.L. 1.198" case demintions .333, case length .786 Any anformation on this piece is appreciated. The customer wishes to know exactly what ammo is used in it. It was purchased in 1940 with one box of ammo. 5 round exist and we're on a trek to locate ammo for him!
Many thanks
BG
quote:Three cardinal rules of life: Sight alignment, Trigger squeeze & Breath control
Many thanks
BG
quote:Three cardinal rules of life: Sight alignment, Trigger squeeze & Breath control
0
-
Maybe this? 
Mle. 1935S
Type: Single Action
Chamber: 7.65x22mm Longue
Weight unloaded: 790 g
Length: 188 mm
Barrel length: 105 mm
Capacity: 8 rounds
The Modele (Mle.) 1935 pistol had been developed by Swiss designer Charles Petter for French company SACM around 1935, and in 1935 this pistol had been adopted by French military as Mle.1935. Initial production began in 1936, and due to low rate of production the pistol had been slightly redesigned in 1938, to simplify manufacture. New model had been designated as Mle.1935S, while original model became Mle. 1935A. Most noticeable change was in the shape of the backstrap and in the lenght of the frame, and in the fact that in Mle. 1935S muzzle protruded from the slide, while in Mle. 1935A muzzle was flush with the slide. Mle. 1935 was official French sidearm until 1950. It was a good pistol, with main drawback being somewhat weak ammunition of 7.65mm caliber. Mle. 1935A was quite an elegant weapon, while Mle. 1935S had much more simplified look. The Mle.1935 had been manufactured by MAC, MAS, SAGEM and SACM factories.
Technically, the Mle.1935 is a further development of the Colt-Browning M1911 pistol. Mle. 1935 uses same locked breech, swinging link operated locking with single locking lug on the top of the barrel (in the Mle. 1935S the locking lug was formed on the slide, and on the top of the barrel there was a recess). The hammer and lockwork was designed as a single assembly, removable for cleaning maintenanse (first originated in Soviet TT pistol of 1930). This unit contained hammer, sear and mains spring. The slide mounted safety locked the firing pin when engaged. Sights were fixed and magazine single stack, holding 8 rounds.
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg98-e.htm
SACM made the first 35As, and all the rest of them. The first 35S pistols were made by MAS. There were 1404 pre-WW II pistols, if I remember correctly, and they have all vanished. When we conducted a survey of existing 35S pistols, we didn't find any of the pre-war lot. There are varying stories of what happened to them; none with any documentation. After the armistice, France produced the 35S by MAS. To help MAS there wer the 10,00 by SAGEM, and some manufacturing help from Manufrance (the MF-G). Then MAC took over production and made the majority of the 35S.
http://www.gunsworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=171&sid=0127dd9147ad9693c7a12e1391a397360 -
Yes Sir, that appears to be a version of the piece we possess. Through a little research we think what we have is the 7.65x19.5mm! Does anyone have knowledge as to where we may be able to purhcase or lead our customer in a direction to purchase this cal. of ammo. SO far we're at a dead end on that end of our trek!
quote:Three cardinal rules of life: Sight alignment, Trigger squeeze & Breath control0 -
Try "The Old Western Scrounger" 0 -
There is a 22mm and a 20 mm, here is a drawing:
7.65x20 / 7.65 Long / 7.65 Franc?s /7.65 MAS /7,65 x 20 French Long /7,65 mm Long French M.1935 /7,65 L pour Pistolet / 7,65 mm L pour Pistolet mitrailleur 1938 / 7,65 mm French 1925 /7,65 mm French 1938 /
7,65 mm Long Auto-Pistol /7,65 mm MAS Auto-Pistol /.30 Browning Automatic Rifle / .30 Pedersen Short / .32 Peters / 7.65 L Pistolet Mitrailleur Mod. 1
Cartucho basado en el .30 Pedersen y desarrollado en Francia en 1925. Diez a?os m?s tarde, el ej?rcito lo adopta para su nueva pistola autom?tica MAS Mod.35.
De potencia intermedia entre el 9 Corto y el 9 Parabellum, la pistola MAS est? sobredimensionada para la energ?a del cartucho. ("combinaci?n bal?stica irracional" se lee en un manual antiguo) Tras la 2? guerra mundial se decide su sustituci?n, siendo declarada obsoleta en 1950 en favor del 9 mm. Parabellum
Cartridge based on 30 Pedersen and developed in France in 1925. Ten years later, the army adopts it for its new automatic pistol MAS Mod.35. Of intermediate power between the 9 the 9 Corto and Parabellum, the MAS pistol is sobredetermine the proportions for the energy of the cartridge ("irrational ballistic combination" is ***reflxed mng in manual an old one) After 2? world war is decided its substitution, being declared obsolete in 1950 in favor of 9 mm Parabellum.
There is a headstamp chart on this site also...
http://www.municion.org/7_65x20/7_65x20.htm
European Cartridge Research Association:
http://www.ecra.info/start.php
http://www.oldammo.com/ammo/metric.txt0 -
1. email me here at the shop if you need to locate a scource for the ammunition...(waltsgun@aol.com)
2. hey NONONSENSE... i thought i was the king of obscure pistol research and information... great response!!!
best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
contact me at the shop at waltsgun@aol.com best regards, mike.0 -
I've owned a number of Model 35A's in the past, they were the predecessors of the 35S's. To the best of my knowledge the 35S was produced only after W W II and in limited quanity as compared to the 35A.
Ammunition for them ( 32 French Long ) has always been a problem, even years back when the pistols were imported in quanity.
To my knowledge their has never been a commerical source for the ammo in this country other then Old Western Scrounger, at $50 a box.
If I was your customer, I would take Big Mike up on his offer, as I'm not aware of any other source of the ammo (32 French Long ), at this time.0 -
nononsense--great job!!!
Bill0 -
The ammo that you are looking for goes by several names including 7.65 MAS but is also referred to as the .32 French sometimes. It should not be confused with the 7.65 Browning or 7.65 Luger. It was chambered in the Model 35-A and 35-S pistols and a French Model 1938 submachine gun. Here is a link to a previous question about the 7.65 MAS cartridge.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=140637
Prospects for finding shooting quantities of this ammo are scarce. From responses to this post, it appears a box or two is available from time to time.
Reloading dies are still attainable and for sale on the Internet. Providing a quantity of brass could be found, reloading is the best option.
This is pretty much collectors ammo at this point.
Regards,
Heavyiron[8D]
"If I don't see you nomore on this world, I'll meet you on the next one, and don't be late!" - Jimi Hendrix0 -
nononsense is a treasure-trove of information.
He seems to have everything at his finger tips.
If you ask him the time he'll not only tell you the time, he'll tell you how to build a clock!0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
9 comments