How the Heck do Revolvers Manage to Work?
OK, I give up and am finally going to ask another dumb question. How is it that revolvers actually work as well as they do?
Reason for this question is that if you take most revolvers (empty of course) and cock the hammer and the cylinder turns and locks in place, you can still look down the barrell (need some light) and see how the cylinder chamber is lining up with the forcing cone/barrell.
BUT, if you move the cylinder back and forth, almost all revolvers will allow the cylinder to move enough that the chamber goes ever so slightly out of perfect alignment with the barrell/forcing cone.
So in view of this, and especially after the wear caused by a few thousand rounds, how is it that the revolver can fire the round and have everything come out ok?
I really, really want to know.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Reason for this question is that if you take most revolvers (empty of course) and cock the hammer and the cylinder turns and locks in place, you can still look down the barrell (need some light) and see how the cylinder chamber is lining up with the forcing cone/barrell.
BUT, if you move the cylinder back and forth, almost all revolvers will allow the cylinder to move enough that the chamber goes ever so slightly out of perfect alignment with the barrell/forcing cone.
So in view of this, and especially after the wear caused by a few thousand rounds, how is it that the revolver can fire the round and have everything come out ok?
I really, really want to know.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
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Yea, and what about the fact that you can hold a revolver and view it from the side and see the clear gap between the cylinder and the barrel. Seems like the burning gases should just blow out the sides and cause the bullets velocity to go to crap. 0 -
magic[:D][:D][:D]
I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.0 -
This is the problem with cheap revolvers and the major reason why it is nearly impossible to manufacture a low cost revolver these days (I mean something in the Bryco/Jennings <$100 price range). This also makes the old S&W Model 10s and Colt Police Positives and Postive Specials real bargans when you look at the way the are built vs. the prices they sell for on the retail market. A good revolver is a percission made piece of machinery and will last for many thousands of rounds before the timing goes out of adjustment while a cheap revolver like the old RGs, Rohms or (God forbid) a Clerke would only last about 100 rounds before they started to shave lead. At some point in time the soft metal parts used in the mechanisims of these cheap revolvers would begin to fail (very little hardend metal was used) and the gun would literally wear itself out through its own mechanical action. Quite a few of these guns were single action types which cut way down on the numbers of internal parts they needed (cheaper to make and fewer parts to wear out) and most of these guns did not have side plates which could be opened to repair or replace their parts, the internals were pinned in place and everything had to come out through the opening for the trigger or hammer...quite a trick! The mechanisim of a well made revolver like a Colt or an S&W is more like a fine watch rather than a firearm and a lot of hand fitting goes into assembly and this is the reason that wheel guns are not inexpensive.
"Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
Mark T. Christian0 -
mark c pretty well said it. I would only add that you had part of the answer in your question. The 'forcing cone' is there to act act as a funnel to guide the bullet into the barrel. Actually, perfect alignment rarely happens due to manufacturing tolerances. At full cock most any revolver cylinder will have a little rotational play. Some revolvers, Colts in particular, when the trigger is pulled the cylinder is rotated to its extreme as held by the bolt, cyl stop or whatever it is called. That in itself produces a source of misalignment which may worsen with use and wear. The design of a revolver includes a series of compromises as with most every other thing in which various parts have to work in concert. As mentioned, the gap between the cylinder and barrel, it would be better if there was go gap but it has to be there to give clearance so the cylinder can turn. So we tolerate the leakage and blast it allows. There are revolvers built to eliminate the cyl-bbl gap but with added complexity and mfgr cost. Did I mention compromise? Is this subject confused enough? The makers of quality revolvers produce a reliable product by correctly dealing with manufacturing reality and compromise. 0 -
"The mechanisim of a well made revolver like a Colt or an S&W is more like a fine watch rather than a firearm......"
Right on Mark! An automatic can be made like crap and still work (look at the late war P38s and Tokarevs), but a revolver reqiuires a precision fit and finish to function well.
Owning a Python is like owning a Patek Philippe watch... [:)]0 -
some olympic russian revolvers had a means to push the cyl forward to the bbl chamber when fired to eliminate the gap all together. genius actually. i believe youll see thast this is the reason why guns like korth are so expensive, they mastered the slop out.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction. NRA certified instructor.0 -
Yeah, I thought it was the forcing cone that compensated for any cylinder/barrell misalignment.
And in addition, and this is just me using layman's logic because I know very little about this, since modern powder "burns" rather than "explodes" as did black powder, I would imagine that a very slow motion/stop action video of a bullet being fired would show the bullet at first moving "relatively" slowly thereby giving the bullet time to adjust itself, and also adjust the cylinder so as to correct any misalignment in the path of the bullet as offered by the cylinder/barrell alignment. True or false?
And I don't have any worry about loss of energy due to a reasonable space between the cylinder and forcing cone/barrell. Once again just layman's logic, but expanding gunpowder moves at a maximum of APPROXIMATELY 5,000 fps. Now you can think of those gas molecules as marbles in a gallon milk jug. If the milk jug is full of marbles (like the chamber is full of expanding gas molecules) and you hold the milk jug upside down, only a limited and consistent number of marbles (gas molecules) will be able to excape from the jug (gas molecules excaping thru cylinder gap).
And so a certain and consistent number of gas molecules will escape and be lost, however not enough to harm the power of the bullet.
Or if the gas loss IS too much to be able for the remainig gas to properly propel the bullet, then you merely have to load the cartridges with more gunpower (plus stronger gun construction) and you have compensated for the gas loss and therefore you have the bullet performance that you desire. Right or wrong?
Anybody know?
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"0 -
Probably sort of like helicopters fly.
The first FAA manual that came out on helicopters didn't understand it either by sidestepping the issue with "it is assumed that helicopters can fly." and let it go at that.
After several thousand hours of flying them I have since learned that tecnology has further explained this statement by saying that a helicopter is a close formation of spare parts flying together!
Guess a revolver is the same way.
Shoot em and enjoy em. Don't worry!
Mike[:o)]
PS My first post but I couldn't resist joining in on this one![:p]0 -
Hi Mike. Good first post! [8D]
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"0 -
if you ever wanted to know why colt stopped making their revolving rifle, now you know...owners would shoot their hands off as it fired and the shavings lodged in the forearm hand! 0 -
When the primer explodes and the charge begins to burn, the base of the cartridge slams against the breech and the entire mass of bullet and charge expands slightly as it leaves the chamber of the cylinder.
The friction created by this action grabs the cylinder and carries it forward toward the barrel, with the taper of the bullet alligning the
cartridge chamber and the barrel opening as it moves into the opening.
The better the mechanism is conformed to cooperate with this principle, the less gas escapes and the more thrust and velocity is developed. The cylinder locks fit in a well-made revolver has close tolerances to begin with so that the bullets entry has less correction to perform and that makes any lateral movement toward adjustment less violent reducing wear and tear on the metal, and producing longevity in the operational functionality of the piece, in general.
Frog.
RRiBBButt...0 -
Good post Frog, but how do you explain how wadcutter bullets work with your theory since there is no "bullet taper"?
Posted by Frog:
The friction created by this action grabs the cylinder and carries it forward toward the barrel, with the taper of the bullet alligning the
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"0 -
In that case, the bevel on the inside of the barrel opening is all you have to rely on for that part of the correction. If you don't have that it's shaving them if the cylinder is out of position.
F.
Rbt.
(Sorry for the late reply, we went to Buns Over Texas and pigged on hamburgers then came home and finished chores and watched some TV before I got back on line.)0
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