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45x70,90 vs Marlin 450

gotstolefrom
I have been on the lookout for a 45x70 gun...probably the Guide Gun. I came across an article somewhere that said all 45x70 ammo was loaded to lower pressures so it could still be safely used in older guns.

The writer proposed the 450 Marlin as the 'Modern Day 45x70', saying that the 450 generates the juice that the 45x70 would have if it were made for 'modern guns'.

In reading a recent post here about using 45x70 in hunts, I wonder how much real utility is in the 450 Marlin realizing 'modern' pressures ?

Opinions please.





Time is Money ??
What a crock !!
Time is much more
valuable than money.
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Comments

6 comments

Date Votes
  • Horse Plains Drifter
    I don't really know the ballistics of the 450 but I think it is supposed to be pretty good. I would prefer the 45-70 just because it's extra cool(I have three).Factory loads as you stated are quite mild because of the older rifles and you really need to hand load to get the most out of it. My bolt action with hand loads is starting to approach 458 win preformance. If I couldn't hand load I'd probably choose the 450.

    Aberdeen.gif
    81st FA BN WWII...Thanks Dad
    U!S!A! ALL THE WAY!!
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  • Boomerang
    I like the 45-70 over the 450 Marlin for the reverse reason. In order to practice with the Marlin 450, you will have to down load it. No commercial down loadings I know of.

    The commercial 45-70 loads are accurate and a pleasure to shoot. If you need a powerful hunting load, Corbon makes them if you do not hand load. I prefer longer barrel Marlins because you get more performance out of all 45-70 loads, and they are not near as loud as guide guns.

    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed"

    . and the antithesis to this philosophy was uttered by Bill Clinton "I smoked it, but I didn't inhale."[V]

    NRA Life Member
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  • Topkick
    If you do not handload there are some rather hot loads available at Cabelas and such. My Marlin 1895G Guide Gun is a pleasure to shoot. I do much better with a scope so I mounted a 4x shotgun scope.
    I did this because the "big push" smacked my face with the 3x9 Redfield.
    The shotgun scope gives me nearly 5" eye relief and no problems since. It is one accurate shootin' iron. I shoot the factory 405 when plinking and the 300gr HP when hunting.
    I chose this model because I hunt deer in a stand and it pokes out the window much easier.

    I am going to purchase a 1895CB this fall. I just like the looks of the longer barrel and the 9 shot mag is a plus.
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  • ern98
    Buffalo bore also makes P+++ for the 45-70. I recently read an artical in one of the rifle mags about how a guide gun was used in Africa to down Cape buffalo using Corbon and Hammerhead P+++ loads. I don't think I'd try that, I'd go with something a litte more so. Another point is that the 45-70 is on it's second century of proven performance. I'm not sure that the 450 will ever be commonly available. I know that none of my local shops carry it, but they do carry a selection of the 45-70.
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  • D.S.COLE
    The 450 Marlin is ny choice . I built one on an FN 98 action .It shoots far harder than a 45/70. If you handload the 45/70 up to max you cant beat it. mine puts 3 shots in a cloverleaf at a 100 yd. an aquaintance has a guide gun that does the same,except it kicks (felt recoil) much more. The bolt action style is more pleasant to shoot in heavy recoil rifles.
    A deer hit with it never knows what got him, Ive seen it actually knock them a flip. They never move after it hits. You still dont get as much bloodshot meat as with a high velocity lighter bullet. It is the ultimate brush or heavy cover round Ive found.
    If you take a 458 Win. Mag and handload the Hornady 350 gr 450 Marlin bullet with the lightest load in the Lyman manual you will have a round that is just a tiny bit more than the 450 , That would be one way to go if you are a reloader.
    You have to soup up and strain the 45/70 to get the performance , so why do it unless the nostalgia of the old round is what you are after.
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  • vytis
    US commercial loading for .45-70 have always been on the mild side because the ammo companies are afraid of the liability issues should one of the old trapdoor Springfields let go with one of their loads. There used to be high velocity loadings available for the Whinchester 1886 , highwall and other stronger guns. But that was in an America that was free of goofy product liability suits.
    The .450 Marlin is a cartridge for people who don't want to reload to get that kind of performance out of the .45-70 and by the way the gun and ammo manufactures make a little money off the crowd that wants something new and different.
    If you handload, the .45-70 is more flexible, more widely available, and dies and cases are cheaper. There are generally three levels of data given in reloading manuals, one for weaker actions like the trapdoor where pressures should be kept down, middle level data for the Winchester 1886 and Marlin 1895 and the highest level for the Ruger single shots which apprently will tolerate the highest pressures
    I don't think the .450 marlin will do anything the .45-70 won't do if loaded to meet your needs. Being a traditonalist, I bought the 1895 cowboy and have been very pleased with it. I had to go to a lower front sight to get the degree of elevation I need for longer range shooting, but that gun will shoot.
    The .45-90 was Winchester's attempt at a chambering in the 1886 to compete with the old Sharps .45-100. Winchester loaded it with a lighter bullet along the lines of a British express cartridge. The idea was to get less drop. Of course the only way to increase power in the black powder days was to us a longer case for more powder. Today with smokeless powder you have plenty of case capacity in the .45-70 to up the performance level to any degree you want to without having to use the longer case.
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