Help in IDing an old gun
I have an old .22, full 1" octagonal barrel, 24" from breech to muzzle, with an action that requires the hammer to be pulled back to open breech by way of a right hand, 90 degree extended lever, (ejector opens also). Only markings are under the barrel, covered by the ornate stock which reads "GRAND 2EA3" (not absolute about the 2EA3). Next to that is a crown with a "U" under it, which also shows up on the left hand side of the trigger housing. On the left side of breech is also a circle with "ELG" (I think, hard to read) with a star under it. The numbers "576" appears bottom side of barrel about halfway. Trigger guard is very ornate with an extension off the back housing for the middle finger to rest while shooting. Everything works and is in fine shape...very little wear and only some sign of surface rust. I found this when I was 15...and no I'm 58...in an old barn my dad and I contracted to tear down one summer. I found this along with a Remington rolling block, in oiled muslin and burlap. I cleaned it up and put it away until I retired. Any help appreciated.
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It seems from your description, that you have a Belgian made Flobert rifle. They date to the 19th Century and fire a number of different rimfire cartridges depend upon specific caliber. They were very common at that time, used mostly for target/small game shooting. Because of the inherent weakness of the action, (falling hammer locked the breechblock) they were superseded by the time of the First World War by stronger more modern designs. 
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Thanks...I just searched for Floberts and found a similar picture. Apparently this was considered a parlor rifle and shot .22 longs...a gentlemans gun for sporting. You were right on about the weak action. I think I'll keep and hang on the wall with some history behind it. Thanks again. 0 -
Aegis 1,
Ruffe-snow did the gig. Just remember to keep it hung on the wall.
Never intended to fire modern-yes-even .22's.0 -
I've always wondered if anyone has ever shot low velocity shorts in these rifles.
I thought they were made for bb caps or cb caps only, although it seems there was also a 25 caliber model.
I've never shot mine, but it looks like it might handle the lv stuff.0 -
quote:Originally posted by I.Shute
I've always wondered if anyone has ever shot low velocity shorts in these rifles.
I thought they were made for bb caps or cb caps only, although it seems there was also a 25 caliber model.
I've never shot mine, but it looks like it might handle the lv stuff.
Hi from Belgium
Those popular gallery guns were made by hundred thousands in Belgium between 1875 and abt 1930.They were invented by H. Warnant, gunsmith at Li?ge. Most breeches feature either the Trapdoor-style or the Rolling block system. Three Flobert calibers were used, being the 9 mm, the 6 mm and the 4.5 mm, but the most common one is the 6 mm (.22 short). However intended to shoot bb caps, yes Sir, they accept modern .22 short. The barrels are quite thick, and the rolling block breeches resist the pressure without any problem. They would not accept the .22 long or .22 LR, as the chamber is too short. Vast majority have smoothbores, but some are rifled.
The Warnant was available in various finishes, ranging from plain with common walnut stock to fully engraved, inlaid specimens wit carved high quality walnut stocks, depending on the client's wallet.
The ELG* stamp in an oval is the official Li?ge proofstamp. If the oval is not surmounted by a crown, the gun was made before 1893; on guns made after 1893 there is a crown above the oval. The initial with a crown above it, is the controller's mark, and the crown indicates a pre-1877 production. On post-1877 productions, the crown above the initial was replaced by a 5-points star. So it looks like yours is an early production, made shortly before 1877.
The figures and numbers are only shop numbers, as Belgian 19th century guns do not bear serial numbers.
Hope this will help
MarcelloB0 -
Bon Jour Marcello! Vive la Belgique, et particularment leur Bier, la premier du Monde!!! Now that I've used up ALL of my half-arsed French (yes, the people that redirected the Germans over the top of Belgium in two consecutive World Wars! Thaqnks bunches, huh?!)it's good to see someone from Belgium on the forum, and unless my aging memory fails, my grandfather De Vos was born in Knokke! Small world, eh? Wanted to compliment you on the fine response and certainly wish my French (or Flamand or Waloon for that matter)was anywhere near as good as your English. It's good to see someone here can comment on Liegeoise guns with the authority you do. I guess it might be an unfair advantage as you are so close to liege, but impressive none the less. Have a good one, and feel free to e-mail me anytime...perhaps we can share stories from across tha pond!
Best Regards,
Bill D
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"When I was 14 I used to marvel at how ignorant my old man was...by the time I was 21 I was truelly amazed at how much the old bugger had learned in the intervening 7 years!" Samuel Clemens
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
MarcelloB -
That's a lot of good information you gave.
Nothing like going to the place where they're made to get the complete answer.
I have a breech block to repair for a model that's about 1/8" narrower. The owner evidently shot a heavier round in it and broke one of the side bars- and it got lost.
He promised to hang it on the wall if I just make it look complete again.
You gave me enough confidence to take mine out and shoot it.
I have a few rounds of the proper ammo, seems they are copper cased and shorter than bb caps.
I thank you for your reply and I imagine Aegis1 feels like his question has been answered very well.0 -
I believe RWS still makes correct ammunition both in .22 and 4mm. correct .22 load is BBcap (round ball, only priming or very small powder charge) CB caps (CB=conical ball) such as loaded by Remington or CCI may work ok if they will chamber. Don't use modern high speed .22 shorts. Purpose of guns was for short range, often indoor target practice and small pest control (rats, sparrows). If you can locate one of the old Gun Digest reprints of the Waffen Frankonia catalog you can get information on the various styles, loads, poriginal prices, etc. good luck 0
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