What about the NORINCO M1A1 (M-14).???
Any thoughts on the good or bad points of this rifle?
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Save up some extra money and buy yourself a Springfield.
There are all kinds of stories about the Norinco's, most bad. Some people have them and like them. The metal treating on many of the parts is pretty much below standards.
Joe
"Never let school interfere with your education"0 -
I dunno man, I asked the same question in this very forum, got the same response and took it. 1300 dollars and about 600 rounds later, I have yet to feed 50 consectuve rounds through my springfield m1a match rifle without a failure to feed.
So needless to say, I'm not sure if its worth almost double the price.0 -
This has been a problem area for many years; sadly, everyone is correct.
While some owners of Chicoms (Norinco & Poly-Tech) have been happy with them, many others have spent hundreds of $ replacing soft & defective parts. Chicoms were imported by a phoney shell company, & were sold "as is, where is"; no warranty, no service, no parts, no nothing.
Look at it another way: Suppose your wife went down to Sears to buy a $1,000 washer/dryer set. But, she comes home with a $600 Chinese washer/dry set that she bought from guys in a truck parked in the mall parking lot. Would that be OK with you? Yeah, the machines might work, but, if there's any problem with them, well, you're on your own. I might buy a $10 beach umbrella that way, but I'm sure not going to buy a high power rifle that I will shoot while held 2 inches in front of my face!
On the other hand, Springfield Armory (now Springfield, Inc) has had problems with quality control since the M1A was first tested by the American Rifleman magazine 30 years ago. You'd think that for all that money you'd get hand-fitting & extensive testing, but you don't. But, over the years, many other companies have tried offering a cheaper, better, M14 clone, & failed. So, for now, they are the only company that make clones in quantity & that can be found stocked in a reasonable number of gunshops. At least they offer a lifetime warranty. All you have to do is ship your gun back to them, & they will have a skilled armorer repair it & send it back to you, at no charge.
If you want a new M14 clone that performs perfectly the first time & every time, your only choice is to have a service-trained armorer build you one with any commercial receiver & all-USGI parts. Figure it will cost upwards of $1,500 for a service grade.
Neal
"You get what you pay for, sometimes less."0 -
Horrible sights, cheap receivers, almost none of the parts interchange with mil-spec, and an ugly wood-to-metal fit.
But then, lotsa folks whine about their SA's too.
e-gunparts.com has receivers for about $450.....
"Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit" --OVID0 -
I've heard it all regarding this topic over the years. I've fired dozens of Springfields over the years and yes, a few of them were, frankly, lousy. Fired several of the Chinese copies, and with the exception of an early specimen (seems as though the early ones were more prone to soft metal/poor heat treating), have seen pretty good things from them. As far as cosmetics go...the Springfield kicks the Chinese copies butt, but I think that may of less than paramount concern to you.
Not that I could prove it, but I have always felt that the negative reports I have seen on the Norincos over the years may well have been put out there by Springfield or some of their minions. Who the Hell knows! Springfield is the safe bet as yiou can annoy them into giving you back a better gun, but the Chinese gun is alot cheaper! Six of one...half a dozen of the other!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"When I was 14 I used to marvel at how ignorant my old man was...by the time I was 21 I was truelly amazed at how much the old bugger had learned in the intervening 7 years!" Samuel Clemens
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
Unfortunately, I think most of these guys are far, far off base as to the relative value of a Chicom M14S as compared to a Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A.
First, the receiver on the Chicom M14S is forged, not cast, and is superior to the Springfield Armory receiver in terms of metallurgy. The Chicom rifles can ultimately come much closer to being true MIL-SPEC that can a SA, Inc. product. Smith Enterprises, most probably the best M1A/M14 gunsmith around, once made their own forged M14 styled receiver. Now, they are more well known for using the Chicom receivers to build up the best M14 styled rifles around.
Metallurgy is not the big issue with the Chicom rifles, flawed metallurgy is pretty much propoganda spread around to discredit the Norinco and Polytech rifles. While Smith does re-heat treat the receivers he builds, most owners of Chicom rifles will tell you that is totally unnecessary. The big issue with the Chinese rifles is NOT metallurgy, it is dimensional problems, primarily related to the bolt and proper head spacing (although there may be some issues with metallurgy and the bolt, I believe the big issue is dimensional problems with the bolt).
Most owners of such rifles will recommend having the bolt replaced with a USGI bolt, as a minimum. Others who shoot these rifles alot just recommend watching the head spacing and checking it every few hundred rounds.
Many people have had great luck with their box stock Chicom M14/S. Many people have had all sorts of problems with their Springfield Armory M1A. There are plenty of reports of quality problems with SA, Inc. M1As in the recent past. SA, Inc. is now usingh a lot of cast parts to build their rifles, many have parts that are inferior to Chicom rifles. A Chicom M14/S may or may not need some special attention to become a good shooter. A new Springfield Armory M1A may or may not need to be returned to the factory once, twice, or thee times before it is finally right.
Those who get really serious about the M1A/M14 styled rifle will very often use a Chicom rifle as the basis for a custom build. Yes, an out of the box chicom rifle is not much in terms of beauty, the stock is very rough, as is finish. But generally it doesn't take much to add USGI parts to one and build a rifle that is far superior to the SA, Inc. M1A.
BTW, I do not own either a Springfield Armory M1A, and I do not own a Chicom M14/S. I own a Smith Ltd (NOT Smith Ent) M14 National Match rifle, with all the USGI National Match parts. If I was looking to buy another M14 styled rifle, my money would go to a less expensive Norinco or Polytech, and NOT a Springfield Armory, Inc. item. Not that I think everything SA, Inc. was bad. I also have a couple of SA, Inc. Beretta marked BM59's. Of course, they have the forged Beretta receivers...I like forged receivers.
Before taking anyone's advice, I would ask some questions around amoung the owners of Polytechs and Norincos found on the first two of the sites I am giving below. The third site is for Fulton Armory, who also uses the Chicom rifles as the basis for some very nice rifles. I think Fulton Armory is a bit overpriced, and perhaps tries to sell stuff through some misinformation, but there is some good information there as well.
The very last link is a book being written on the M14/M1A styled rifle that has all, and I mean all the information you would ever want on the subject. I would read it over very carefully and take what this book says to heart. It is, right now, a free book that has been under development for quite some time. Actually, I contributed to the book in terms of consultation regarding magnetic particle inspection, so I am a bit biased towards the book. It is a book you (and a few others) should download and read to become knowledgeable about this style of rifle.
http://www.ambackforum.com/index.php
http://www.m-14forum.com/index.php
http://www.fulton-armory.com/
http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/
On the last link, the link to get to the book is
http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/book.html
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
Or you could just go the smart AND cheap way and get yourself a metric FAL. The best .308 military rifle ever made (it just wasn't made here).
It is a poor sort of man who is content to be spoon-fed knowledge that has been filtered through the canon of religious or political belief, and it is a poor sort of man who will permit others to dictate what he may or may not learn.
Once in a while a man has to fight...but you avoid it if you can. Fightin' attracts attention, and theat's the last thing you need. L'Amour
Stolen from, and with thanks, to Kiwibird0 -
quote:I also have a couple of SA, Inc. Beretta marked BM59's.
instant wood! ,love them bm59's .i remmber when they were under a grand ,now i can't touch one
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... --- -.-. .-. .- - . ...0 -
Go to Canada and buy a new Norinco M1A1 for less than $400.00 American, disassemble it and hide the parts throughout your luggage, and drive back across the border.[:0]If you are will to risk a 20 year sentence.[:o)]
Have seen them up there and they are fairly nice compared to the Springfield, but never had the chance to shoot one. All the fellows up there love them.
Me, I am saving up for the Springfield or the FAL if I don't get there.
PS: My first line about bringing one across the border IS A JOKE only, please do not even think about doing such a thing!
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.0 -
f**k anything else than a springfield. ssr338, if your failing to feed every 50 rounds its the ammunition that your using. soft points and all rounded ammunition will have problems feeding. Recon5, if your into cheap peices of s**t and dont care about accuracy or quality then get an ak or somthing. if you want great accuracy, reliability, and quality then go with the springfield. if your going to spend the money then dont go half ass on your decision. all those other manufacturers are second rate. and if you are going to get the springfield they have a few models. i would go with the super-match. that has a mcmillan stock and is fine tuned. if you dont have the money, like me, then get the national match, which is what i have. after some practice you should get 3/4 inch groups no problem with good ammo. 0 -
I've seen Springfield cast parts break during competion. You don't always get what you pay for. 0 -
Like I said, go to the other sites I listed and get an objective view. For one thing, you will find "those other manufacturers" were the ones supplying SA, Inc. with the parts (receivers) for their earlier (and best) rifles.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
I owned a polytech for years, got it cheap from a friend. I shot about five thousand rounds without problems, learning how to shoot the M1a platform. finally broke extractor. sent it to smith at that point, then shot about another 5k without problems before I sold it. Only minus: couldn't seem to get better than 3" groups with it, even after rebuild,even with scope off bench. love the M1a,and consider my time with the polytech a success. I'll be looking for another, but it won't be a springfield.
P.s. also owned and shot an fal extensively. very nice, but trigger like a gate latch, rear sight less useful than m1a,and no good for high power. cheap mags, though.0
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