Damascus barrels
I'd like to hear some pros and cons on shooting low-base 12g shells in my double barrel Crescent shotgun. Obviously a prudent person would say "why chance it", but is there another side to this story?
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How can I tell if a shotgun made in 1895 has real Damascus barrels or just a Damascus finish on the steel? 0 -
Some are safe and some are not.
In my opinion none are safe to shoot with anything but black powder. The black powder loads are really not that bad. I've used Winchester brass cases, hand loaded them with black powder and shot, actually thought they performed quite well, but then I've also shot skeet with a double barrel muzzle loading shotgun.
Best to have a gunsmith check it out.0 -
Hello tc...
YES and NO. OK, know that I have you confused further, I will try to explain.
First, the VAST majority of damascus barreled firearms (mostly shotguns) were designed for blackpowder only. There are some that were specifically proofed for the early smokeless powders, but those are mainly found in England/Europe.
Second, the current condition of the damascus barrel(s) is the overriding factor in whether or not they can be safely fired with proper loads. Many of those old damascus barreled guns are at least 100 years old, and were not always properly cared for (cleaned).
Third, the specific maker of the gun in question is very important (read this to mean "quality" made guns). I personally would (and do) shoot damascus barreled Parker Bros., Colt (Model 1883), Ithaca (Crass Model), and would even consider shooting an early L.C. Smith provided that the barrels/bores are in excellent condition. There are several other makes that are safe with their intended loads as well. What I recommend against shooting, are almost all of the "hardware store" guns that were sold/imported in this country between circa 1890 - 1913. Most of them were inexpensively made, and like anything else of that ilk, they have not stood up to the ravages of time very well.
Finally, there is indeed a fair number of shooters in the U.S.A. and a LOT of shooters in the U.K. that routinely shoot damascus barreled guns, but as a whole, those people know exactly what they are doing, and they reload their own shells. The traditionalists shoot black powder loads, but there are some who prefer real light loads of low pressure smokeless powder. This is an area that requires much knowledge, and great care.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Here's the nuts and bolts of it all: The pretty Damascus patterns are a result of hammering (forging) stips of iron and steel together around a mandrel (bar)creating the attractive pattern. While we're at it, we might as well include "twist steel" barrels, which are two long wires of steel, wrapped around a solid iron bar, and hammered under heat until they fuse into a tube. Either way we create voids and air pockets in the numerous "welds", and moisture may have been included, or may enter through microscopic holes in the fused area. Especially true if the gun has been subject to less than ideal storage. So, the moisture works to create rust (as moisture always does on ferrous metal) and weakens the weld. BOOM. Also, iron is not smelted of all impurities as is steel, so there may be built in inculsions in the iron strips as well that have rusted and weakened. BOOM. Well, golly---how come the oldtimers that bought them could shoot them joyously and often, then? Because they were new guns then, and Father Time and moisture hadn't worked them over. Besides, they were shooting black powder loads, which has a more gradual pressure curve than does modern smokless powder. Kind of a shove instead of a smack. Now, one never wants to say "never", so I will admit that I have known those who fired carefully preserved specimens with truly low base modern shells. Beware of the high base shell in the low base brass, made to save money! But, one must weigh the possibilities. Hmmmm....fun to shoot vs. eye. Fun to shoot vs. fingers of supporting hand. Hmmmm.......Uhhhhh......probably not. Hang it on the wall, and enjoy the conversation it will generate.[:)] 0 -
To all of the above.......yup!
When in doubt, hang it over the fireplace.0 -
Thanks to all...............sounds like a wall hanger!
What goes around comes around!0 -
In an attempt to paraphrase what Der Gebirgsjager said, it is possible for a Damascus barrel to deteriorate from the inside, so when you shine a light down the barrel it appears to be in new condition, but in reality, it could have voids between the inside and outside surfaces of the barrel.
I used to shoot them forty-some-odd years ago, but that was before I found out about the voids. Some people do it without a problem. I wouldn't.0
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