Winchester out of business???
My father said he read that Winchester is going out of business. Has anyone else heard that? Thanks for all the input from my previous post but being new, wondered why my post was locked. Why does that happen? For those who responded and recommended the marlin levers, I've read that the twist rate does not accomodate heavier bullets well and that it's doesn't feed them as well. Has anyone else had these experiences? I know the Marlin's are cheaper than the Rugers and Winchesters but it seems the Marlins would be harder to clean with their action and although I know the Rugers arn't the prettiest stock design, that clip is tempting for hunting, seeing as I'm not interested in a cowboy action shoot or just playing around. Why doesn't anyone like the Winchester lever .44s? Price not being a factor, the Timber Scout seems like one sweet little lever action 44. I own all three brands of these in other rifles but no levers other than a Savage 99, any more insight from owners of these?
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Marlin levers far exceed any of the newer winchesters,I've owned several of each and I'll go with Marlin any day! As for Marlin twist rate(?) I've never had any problems with my .44mag., .444, or 45.70 handleing any weight bullet I load, and never any problems with feed. [:)] 0 -
Oh, I forgot to include that a Marlin lever can be totally disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled while your still trying to figure out how to get the bolt out of a Winnie lever[:D] 0 -
Winchester still went out of business in 1981.
Posts are usually locked after 10 responses. The reasoning is that most questions will have been answered within that limit; more responses than that are probably an indication that an "Ask the experts" question has devolved into a "General discussion" topic.
Neal0 -
The first time Winchester went out of business was in the early 1930's when the company was sold. 0 -
And they are likely not going out of business now (US Repeating Arms). They are closing the New Haven factory, and will continue building guns in Belgium and who knows where, Japan maybe.
I agree that Marlin levers exceed the Winnies (late models) in every way but one. The Winnies are trimmer and easier on my eye than the Marlins. That said, I sold my 94 and bought a 336.0 -
Hello everyone: While it's true Winchester has been bought and sold several times in the last century, the Olin corp. bought it, when it was in bankruptcy in the late 20s or early 30s, and then sold the plant and licended USRA to use the Winchester name in the early 80s. Then USRA was bought by Herstal, (I don't know if I spelled that right) which is owned by a french company, the same one that owns Browning now.
The licensing agreement that USRA had with Olin is due to expire next year. So it wouldn't make any difference if somebody bought the New Haven plant, if they didn't get a new licensing agreement from Olin, the Winchester firearms will be no longer.
Lots of firearms manucturers have gone out of business, Parker, which later was bought by Remington, and they stopped producing Parkers. LC Smith which was finally bought by Marlin, and they have attemped twice now to bring back the LC Smith, once in the late 60s and early 70s and today some LC Smiths are being produced in Italy I think for Marlin. Heck even USRA had some "older Winchesters" made in Japan for them by Miruko.
But USRAs ran Winchester into the ground. They closed the famous Custom Shop, where the Md 21 were produced along with the Y Md 12sand many others. They sold off land and buildings at the Winchester plant in New Haven, and tore down others.
So if anyone does buy the plant, it isn't even close to what it was 40-60 years ago.
With liability insurance, product liability insurance, ( not the same) environmental issues facing a manufacturer today, the general over all cost of doing business. I don't look for anyone to step in and buy the old Winchester plant. Will someone buy the licensing right to the Winchester name and produce "SOME" Winchesters, possibly.
But you have to remember what happened to the Olin corp in 1964, when they stopped making the pre-64s, and then when USRAs took over and what they did. Just because a firearm has "Winchester" stamped on the barrel, doesn't mean it is the same "quality" and built by craftsmen, like the pre-64s were.
If anymore "Winchesters" are produced, it will be more of a novelty, than anything else. Meaning a special issues of a certain models built by some current manufacturer.
Last year we saw Ithaca close the doors, from what I've read Remington is in trouble too. Can Marlin, Savage,and others be far behind?
As long as people expect the pre-64 Winchester quality and craftsmanship, but only want to pay todays Mossberg price, it just wont happen.
We as a society and a leading industrial nation are heading in a different direction. We've seen it in the ship building indusrty, auto-makers, firearms, airplanes, etc etc.
Of course the gun haters love this, since you can't take them away, make it more difficult to manufacture them, and the manufacturers will quit! Little do they understand just because you stop making them, they wont go away! Too many of them already. Hang on for a bumpy rife here in the 21s Century!
Regards to all
Dave0 -
Regardless, they make fine, top quality cartridges. A personal favorite of mine. Not a rifle fella, but to those of you who favor the Winchester rifles, my condolences. 0 -
Hello all,
To clear up the discussion concerning the history of the Winchester Arms Company, the following historical information is provided.
Oliver Winchester started the company in May of 1859 when he negotiated an agreement with Tyler Henry to manufactured the famed Henry Rifle. The Winchester family owned and controlled the company until December 1931, when Franklin Olin and his sons John and Spencer made a cash offer in the amount of $8,122,837.67. Under Olin's tenure as the owner of Winchester, the company changed very little until 1964. On December 12, 1980, the Olin Corporation formally announced that it would divest itself of the firearms business (retaining the profitable ammunition division). In early 1981 a consortium of former Winchester management members established a new company, the "U.S. Repeating Arms Company" and purchased the firearms division from Olin. Olin continues to manufacture WInchester ammunition and holds the rights to the "Winchester" name.
My personal guess is that the "Winchester" name will no longer adorn a new firearm. It saddens me greatly to consider the loss of an icon name in the firearms industry, and that after 112 years of continous production, the fabled Model 1894/94 will cease[:(][V]0 -
Bert, did not AMF have the Winchester name and New Haven plant between 63-64 and 1981? Was it not AMF that was responsible for the regretable "post-64" 70's and 94's? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Bert, did not AMF have the Winchester name and New Haven plant between 63-64 and 1981? Was it not AMF that was responsible for the regretable "post-64" 70's and 94's?
Nope... Olin Industries owned Winchester from December 1931 through early 1981, and they made all of the business decisions.0 -
Bert its surprising that a 1 MOA rifle like the Winchester 94 could become obsolete![;)] 0 -
quote:( not the same) environmental issues facing a manufacturer todayEverytime I hear this line, it is usually an excuse used by poorly managed businesses in the first place. Having said that, I will acknowledge that there are way too many misinformed and over-zealous envronmental regulators that cause additional cost to be incurred, with very little gain. However, it has been my experience that many, many more misinformed and unscupulous environmental consultants run up environmental compliance costs only to line their pockets. The way these consultants are able to get away with their incompetence and greed is to blame environmental regulators. 0 -
Not all Winchester-branded models are made overseas. The Model 1300 shotgun and the Model 94 rifle are made in the factory that is closing. Model 70 rifles are partially made there. Herstal MIGHT keep the Model 70 line, but I think we have seen the last of the Model 1300 series. Rumors in the industry are that we might see some guns previously branded as Winchester resurface under a Browning trademark, made at their plant in South Carolina.
Several "major players in New England that already make rifles" are rumbling around New Haven.... Marlin, perhaps? Savage? Some interesting possibilities there.
Or, like USFA is building guns in Colt's old Blue Dome plant, maybe some enterprising company (starts with U, ends with I) could begin producing REAL lever-actions in New Haven again...
We cant stop Herstal from closing what currently passes for Winchester, but maybe there can be a phoenix from the ashes...0 -
Hello everyone: Can't really argue with you and your thoughts Boomerang on environmentalists. But manufacturing plants of today were not always run the way they are now.
Since you are looking at a plant that has been in one location for over 125 years, I'm sure there will be some environmental concerns. Such as the machined parts "degreasing area" where they would clean parts to get all the machine coolant/cutting oil off of the parts. Today that waste, would be held in tanks and carted off. Or when blueing solutions needed to be changed, the old solution, would be put into a container and carted off. In years past, it was not uncommon, to let such waste run out onto the ground, or into a local creek or stream. Then you have the land where the old foundry was. Between the "land and ground water" clean-up, it just may employ quite a few workers for years to come.
I'm sure you have heard of some of the "clean-up" that is on going at the old military bases that are now closed. Along with old power generating plant sites. The "Greater Winchester" plant site will have that same concern. In the private sector some previous owners have been held liable. So the Olin Corp. may still be partly responsible for the plant site clean-up as well as USRA, and there parent company. It will be intersting to see if the local and state governments step in, and make an issue out of it.
Regards Dave0
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