45/410 vs 410/45
I know that some guns (some old single shot shotguns and the Judge revolver) are made specifically to shoot the 45 LC that also shoot 410 shells.
Question: Could one safely shoot the 45 LC in a shotgun chambered for 410? Seems that a 410 chamber should be plenty long enough to accept a 45LC and the pressures are likely safe. Haven't heard of this as a practice but also don't want to blow out a barrel or lose use of a body part by doing something stupid.
Question: Could one safely shoot the 45 LC in a shotgun chambered for 410? Seems that a 410 chamber should be plenty long enough to accept a 45LC and the pressures are likely safe. Haven't heard of this as a practice but also don't want to blow out a barrel or lose use of a body part by doing something stupid.
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Shooting a 45 LC in a 410 shotgun, is extremely dangerous. The standard diameter of the 45 LC bullet is .452/454. The bore diameter of a .410 shotgun, depending amount of choke could be anywhere from .390/.410. 0 -
SAAMI explicitly recommends against firing a .45LC (or any metallic cartridge) from a shotgun.
There are two problems with trying this:
First, there is a pressure issue. The .410 runs at about 12,500 PSI, but the .45 LC runs at 14,000 PSI. While its probably true that modern .410 guns can handle the higher pressure safely, do you want to take a chance?
Also, as mentioned, the .45LC round itself is larger in diameter than the nominal .410 bore, particularly a choked barrel.
While it *may* be possible to overcome these issues (see video below), I think the smartest thing to do is that if you want a gun that can fire both, get one specifically designed to do that (there are several on the market).
EDIT: Correct link posted now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upF0a8qLdII
Also, if you need to shoot solid bullets from your .410 gun, there are .410 slugs available. These aren't particularly weak either, this article compares them ballistically to light .40SW rounds, and if you load them yourself, I think its possible to do considerably better safely:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_49/ai_100727291/?tag=content;col1
Edit:
I think you'd be an idiot to try even ONE shot of a .44 magnum from a .410 shotgun, as the operating pressure on the .44 magnum is FAR above what a .410 is designed to handle. Again, while certain .410 guns can *possibly* handle the pressure, this is REALLY pushing things.
Being Devil's advocate, if you HAD to do this, at least a .44 magnum bullet is really only .429 in diameter, making it a better fit in a .410 barrel. Using reduced loads and soft lead (or swaged-down) bullets ought to make this a LOT safer.
On .45LC, you'd think a .45 diameter bullet *SHOULD* blow up a .410 caliber bore, but empirically it doesn't. . .at least not with some guns, as the above video proves. I don't know if its a combination of the relatively low pressures involved (ie compared to most rifle rounds or magnum pistol rounds), overboring of the .410 barrel, "squishing" of the soft lead bullets, or likely some combination of all of the above.
My take on this is that I still wouldn't mess around with metallic cartridges from a shotgun unless it were truly an emergency. (IE all I had was .45LC ammo and a .410 gun and I were starving or my life were on the line).
Doing it "for fun" seems like it might not turn out so fun.
Edit #2: Sure, I suppose "reduced loads" would include .44 special loads, those would have to be less UNsafe than .44 magnum.
With tinkering, you might be able to use .41 magnum bullets (or 10mm/.40SW) for an even better fit. But again, if you're going to be buying factory ammo, why not just buy .410 slugs instead of .45LC or .44 special/magnum/etc? If you're loading your own, you might just load your own .410 slugs, accomplishing essentially the same thing, without pushing any safety envelopes.
In terms of "survival", this doesn't really make sense to me either. If I were planning in advance for a "survival" situation, the first thing I'd do isn't convert the .410, but instead trade it for a 12 gauge shotgun.
While it wouldn't hurt, I don't see a huge advantage in having commonality between my shotgun and my pistol in a situation like that. Again, if I were planning in advance, a .45LC wouldn't be my first choice for a pistol round in that situation either.0 -
victorj19,
As has already been stated, it is very dangerous, and akin to playing roulette, as to when the 410 gun will burst by firing 45 Colts or 44 magnums in it. Many idiots still do it though.
That said, the 410 shotgun's bore is just that...0.410 inches in diameter. The 45 Colt bullet is 0.452 inches in diameter, and a 44 Magnum is 0.429 inches.
The firearms, either the long guns, or handguns, that are made and MARKED 45LC/410 are long chambered 45 Colt's, with a 0.452 inch diameter bore, and they will have rifling in them if they are under 18 inches of barrel length to avoid the SBS status on the NFA list. The chambers are lengthened to accommodate either the 2 1/2, or 3 inch 410 shotgun shell.
I hope this explains it for you.
Best0 -
What about .44 special? Aside from the diameter issue obviously. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by MR_Perfect
What about .44 special? Aside from the diameter issue obviously.
Same deal...trying to fit a quarter thru a nickel sized hole. Why would you want to even take the chance? Though people do it all the time.0 -
Victor,
You answered your own question. This question/topic comes around on a regular basis, same STUPID idea, same answer, DON'T!
The concept of 'small projectile' will go thru larger bore, but not vice-a-versa is not really that hard to comprehend. Think of it this way;
you can put 5 lb.s of fooey in a 10 lb. bag & it'll carry just fine.
try putting 10 lb.s of fooey in a 5 lb. bag & the stuff is gonna' fly.
There are warning labels on almost everything we buy these days & still some people still have to push their luck & ignore the rules.
If the manufacturer does not recommend the loading, DON'T DO IT!
Same thing with Preperation H, don't take internally!
Jim0 -
Victor: please, if you have any doubt regarding correct firearms useage, no matter how simple, please post it for us to evaluate. I'd much rather you post something that may be wrong, than you hesitate posting (in the future) and the question goes unanswered.
Always post! I, for one, will listen! Best, Joe0 -
I get it. 45, 44 Mag, 44 Russian, etc. have a dia larger than bore and shotgun barrel can't take the pressures of the pistol cartridge. I have no intention of trying it.
I'm still curious as to how they did in the old guns designed to handle both the 45 colt and 410? Were they just smooth bore 45s with a long chamber? I'm thinking old guns = lower pressure BP. If I'm right there'd be negative choke and little accuracy for the 45.
The Judge revolver must be designed to handle the higher pressures of the 45 and a bore to match0 -
As far as I know, there were no "old guns" that were .410 shotguns intended to shoot .45 Colt. A shotgun is designed around MUCH lower pressures than ball ammo produces. There WERE .410s that were intended for use with a .44 cartridge- it was a 44 Extra Long SHOT cartridge- actually considered by many to be the forerunner of the .410 shotshell.
TC did make a version of their single shot pistol that DID have a .45/ .410 barrel, but THAT action is strong enough for serious rifle ammo. And I do not consider the 1960's to be an "old" gun.0 -
I was able to find 4 current GB auctions for a 410-44 shotgun
here's 2
http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=131974391
http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=131306759
They are all old H&Rs. Pretty sure Hopkins and Allen marketed one too.
What about a 41 Mag in a 410? Just kidding. Pressure would be too high. I'll just shoot 410 slugs but I don't know at what.0
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