Mosin Nagant Scope Mounting
I've got a Mosin Nagant M91/30, Izhevsk 1943, and I want to put a scope on it. There seem to be 4 options:
- Drill/tap receiver, bend bolt handle, mount regular scope
- Drill/tap receiver, side-mount regular scope
- Replace rear site with rail, use LER/scout scope
- Replace rear site with rail, bend bolt handle, use regular scope
Since I don't want to permanently alter a 67-year-old rifle, I'm down to option 3: replace the rear sight with a rail and use a long eye relief (LER) / scout scope. Unfortunately, not all of these mounting systems are made equally. Some mounts are supposed to be unable to take the kick and keep coming loose, others are supposedly fine. Same for the scopes themselves.
So, who has mounted a LER scope to a MN? What company did you get the mount from? What type of scope are you using? Do the cheap NCStar scopes hold up ok? FYI, I'm hoping to put a lot of rounds through this rifle at the range.
Thanks for the advice!
- Drill/tap receiver, bend bolt handle, mount regular scope
- Drill/tap receiver, side-mount regular scope
- Replace rear site with rail, use LER/scout scope
- Replace rear site with rail, bend bolt handle, use regular scope
Since I don't want to permanently alter a 67-year-old rifle, I'm down to option 3: replace the rear sight with a rail and use a long eye relief (LER) / scout scope. Unfortunately, not all of these mounting systems are made equally. Some mounts are supposed to be unable to take the kick and keep coming loose, others are supposedly fine. Same for the scopes themselves.
So, who has mounted a LER scope to a MN? What company did you get the mount from? What type of scope are you using? Do the cheap NCStar scopes hold up ok? FYI, I'm hoping to put a lot of rounds through this rifle at the range.
Thanks for the advice!
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I have successfully mounted a long eye relief scope on my Mosin Nagant 91/59, which I am quite certain uses the same rear sight mount as the 91/30. If you remove the Mosin's rear sight by driving out the pins and then drifting the sight forward, you will find a grooved mounting base remains that is about the same as the grooved reciver of a .22 rifle.
Onto that I secured a steel-claw Tip-off mount with 1 inch rings, that was made for putting a 1" scope onto the grooved receiver of a .22 rifle. I used steel claws because I wanted to tighten it securely, and the steel claws are serrated a bit and resist fore-and-aft movement under recoil.
The scope I used was then mounted like a "scout" rifle's; I had a Leupold 2X pistol scope lying around no longer used that I attached. This rig worked perfectly for me, staying put for several hundred rounds. I do realize there is no specific fore-and-aft locator in this method, though it so far hasn't been necessary. I do also believe something could be easily rigged up utilizing the factory drilled pin holes that located the iron sight.
The scope mount is cheap and available in most any gun store. NO PERMANENT MODIFICATION is done to the rifle. I personally believe that issue to be important, as practically every Mosin 91 rifle is a combat veteran steeped in history, and thus an artifact of the tremendous struggle that should be conserved.0 -
Thanks for the tip. I'll have to check mine over this weekend and see if it has the grooves underneath. The rail systems I was talking about use those pinholes, which might account for some of the problems. Like these:
http://www.tickbitesupply.com/mos.html#mosscope
http://www.amazon.com/Mosin-Nagant-2-5x30-illuminated-91/dp/B0022VBAGS/
I'd love to mount a Leupold on it, if I had that much spare cash. The advantage and curse of the NCStar is that it only costs ~$50, instead of the $250+ for the Leupold.I'm sure I'll get what I pay for, but I want to hear whether the NCStar is usable.
Thanks for the help, PA Shootist!0 -
A few points.
Without getting into the debate about altering older Mosin rifles, if you are concerned about this, there are still TONS of post-war Mosin M44 carbines around that have little (ie zero) historical value.
The "scout" type mount that replaces the rear sight is by far the simplest solution to scoping these, though it does come with its own set of issues.
The biggest one is that "scout" type long eye relief scopes offer a pretty narrow field of view. The higher the magnification, the narrower the field of view. That means that in practice it can be hard to even get on target with anything greater than 4x.
I'd say if you are interested in shooting or hunting at long ranges (ie consistently over 150-200 yards) you're probably better off with bending the bolt and putting on a receiver mount so you can put up a regular scope. More cost and trouble, but worth it, I think.
Again, back to the question, I've now personally done the "scout" scope mount twice on Mosin rifles.
First I tried one of the aluminum Mosin mounts, (looks like the same one listed on the Tickbite site), and while it did seem to yield a fairly good mount when I installed it, I found out the hard way that the recoil from the Mosin quickly loosened the screws (which then fell out!) and knocked the scope out of alignment.
Retrospectively, applying loctite up front MIGHT have prevented this.
After the fact, though, I wasn't completely satisfied with the thin mounting screws, and necessity to screw down pointed screws into the sight base to hold the mount in place, and so I decided to go for something better. For all I know this might have worked well with loctite, but I didn't want to take a chance a second time. (I probably WILL eventually try this again on a second gun).
Anyway, instead I swapped out the mount for the S&K dedicated scout-type scope mount for a Mosin. This one came with mounting rings.
http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html
Mount cost about $80, but is made of steel, fully adjustable and absolutely rock solid. So far as I can tell, this is the "Cadillac" of Mosin mounts, and probably THE best one available. (Yeah. . .mount cost nearly as much as the gun!). This one also requires loctite (again learned that the hard way. . .instructions didn't specify it), but 250+ rounds later it seems to be holding pretty strong, and I suspect its not going to go anywhere.
For the scope, I used an old 2x Leupold pistol sight which I picked up used on Fleabay for about $100. (Again, costing roughly the same as the gun!). These are relatively inexpensive because nobody seems to want "puny" 2x scopes. . .all the better for me!
My goal was to get something that would just replace the iron sights. Again, for the reasons listed above, for a SCOUT type mount, high power is not that desirable, and I'm pretty satisfied with the scope.
Personally, I'd be afraid to use an NCSTAR scope as I simply don't think a low end scope like that is going to stand up to the repeated pounding of 7.62x54R recoil.
Saving $100 on a cheap scope is false economy if it won't hold a zero, or fails after 50 rounds and you eventually have to replace it (costing you money AND your time in installing and zeroing it).
If you really intend to shoot this a lot, I'd say make the investment into a better quality scope. Try Leupold, Burris, or Nikon. Any of these will have better optics than an NCSTAR, and hold a zero better, and if they ever fail, you get a lifetime no-questions asked guarantee.0 -
MD_Man...back in the day when the Mosin'w first hit our shores, I went through the same decision making process you are going through..but I went with your second option, and glad that I did. I have (among others) a Tula 1943 and I wanted to set it up with the Russian PU scope set up that the Russian's put on it, figuring that since it was their rifle, they knew the best setup. And I wanted to make it historically accurate, so a 1943 PU scope was required and the bolt had to be turned down to clear the scope. After much looking, I found the 1943 PU 3.5 scope with the correct Russian side mount and took the rifle to my friendly gunsmith who, for about the price of the rifle, turned the bolt down and correctly mounted the scope. All told, I had about half as much $ in the rifle as the "sniper" setup sold by SARCO and others. The Tula is not a tack driver, but it will hit target nicely out to about 300 yds and would do more if my eyes would cooperate. I have had friends who have gone the scout scope way and they usually complain about the power of the 7.62 either knocking the scope out of zero or completely off the rifle! The Russian had it right in my book, and I know that when it comes to selling my PU Mosin (I am not going to do it but my family will when I am gone) they can get the $ out of it that I put into it which will mean that I shot it for free! What a deal! Hope this helps. Good shooting! 0 -
There was at one time, and still may be, a vendor who sold the bent bolt handles or would bend your bolt handle. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by rsnyder55
There was at one time, and still may be, a vendor who sold the bent bolt handles or would bend your bolt handle.
There are plenty of individuals offering this service on Fleabay, and I think even here on the auction site.
By reputation, this guy is one of the best:
http://www.angelfire.com/gundam/boltman/bolt_work/
Edit: If you want to go with a conventional scope, the traditional side mount is probably the best way to go.
Just understand that with most (ie non-sniper model) guns, not only will you have to drill and tap the receiver to fit the mount and bend the bolt to clear it, you'll also have to have some wood routed out from the side of the stock to get the receiver mount to fit. Not really a big deal, but its another non-reversible alteration to the gun.0
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