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SBR

cbxjeff
could anyone tell me the form that I need to register a sbr with the ATF? Any info would help
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8 comments

Date Votes
  • cbxjeff
    I have read some of the older SBR posts and still am not sure what to do. I have a new AR lower that has never been assembled into a complete firearm. I want to purchase one of the new 11.5" complete 5-7 uppers. I know I need a form 1 and probably should have that in hand before I take posession of the upper. What about engraving my name on the upper? I had a dealer tell me that but it just doesn't sound right. I can build a firearm from scratch with no paperwork or any numbers (although I can never sell it). Yes, the BATF "suggests" I put a S/N on it & let them know. Can I just spend the $200, wait for the form 1 to process, take posession of the upper, drop it on, and blaze away?
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  • mark christian
    Don't let that short barreled upper near a lower receiver or any other AR type rifle until you have an approved Form 1 in your hands! National Firearms Act weapons (Title II) differ from normal sporting firearms (Title I) in that you MUST have a serial number on any NFA weapon that you build. You don't need a serial number when building a sporting firearm for your own use, but the NFA mandates it. In this case you are not actually building a firearm, you are just assembling a set of parts onto an existing lower receiver and registering the result. The serial number that is already present on your lower is perfectly valid for use on your new SBR, just use that number when you file the Form 1.
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  • Nwcid
    You can use ANY receiver to build a SBR, not just a virgin receiver.

    If you want to use your 11.5" upper, put it on your virgin lower WITHOUT butt stock (making it a pistol) until your NFA paperwork comes back approved.

    As Mark said building NFA is a whole different set of rules.

    Yes, fill out and submit a Form 1, wait for it to come back approved, then you are legal to put a stock on it.

    Nice thing is the lower will be the SBR so you can use any upper you want on it.
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  • LIKTOSHOOT
    ...and all this time I though once you make it a pistol, it will be forever more a pistol.(by the rules of BATF that is)
    LTS
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  • mark christian
    quote:Originally posted by LIKTOSHOOT
    ...and all this time I though once you make it a pistol, it will be forever more a pistol.(by the rules of BATF that is)
    LTS


    You have it in the reverse; A rifle is always a rifle, but a pistol can be turned into a rifle anytime you fell like it. Example:

    You take one of those silly (I think that they are silly so too bad) AR-15 type pistols, add an upper with a 16" barrel and a attach a butt stock to the receiver (making sure that the whole thing is over 26" OAL) and you have built yourself a rifle.

    If you take an AR-15 rifle, remove the butt stock and add an upper with a 10" barrel you don't have a pistol, you have a Short Barreled Rifle. Why is that you ask? It looks just like one of those silly AR pistols so why is mine different? Because your firearm started out as a rifle and a rifle is all that it can ever be.
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  • tsr1965
    Mark & Nwcid,

    Not to get off the subject, and there have been numerous threads on this topic too....
    The part of a pistol, turned to rifle and back to pistol...

    I have a T/C Encore that I bought as a pistol(registered as such at the factory) in 308 win...with a 15 inch barrel...can I put a muzzloader barrel of 28 inches on it with a butt stock, or a 223 rifle barrel?...then back to a pistol?...legally? Never a butt stock with a barrel shorter than 16 inches, I know though.

    If you wish, you can e-mail me.

    Best
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  • LIKTOSHOOT
    The Encore is the exception and is listed as the rule, as they sought this very relief. Like MG`s, once you convert it to a pistol,(by BATF) it is now a pistol.

    LTS
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  • Nwcid
    quote:Originally posted by LIKTOSHOOT
    The Encore is the exception and is listed as the rule, as they sought this very relief. Like MG`s, once you convert it to a pistol,(by BATF) it is now a pistol.

    LTS


    That is FALSE too.

    This Court Ruling(http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=504&page=505), vs ATF opinion letter is ONLY for the Thompson KIT that came with all the parts to build a rifle OR a pistol. This does not apply to ALL TC guns, or any other guns, according to the ATF and their opinion letters.

    Even the new ATF opinion letters state that if you have all the parts in a KIT form "from a single source" to legally build a pistol or a rifle it would be legal. For example if DPMS sold a lower receiver, 6.5" upper, 16" upper, pistol buffer, rifle stock all in a single kit then you could legally swap between the two.

    I say ATF opinion letters because that is all the letters the ATF writes are. The ATF had the opinion that TC was selling unregistered SBR's. TC took the opinion to court and the court RULED that the ATF was wrong.

    So in reality many of the things members post here are opinions based on factual law but are still opinions of how we read it, unless the question fits an exact situation that was RULED on by a court.


    So back to your main point and why it is false. NOTHING can be converted to a pistol, that is 100% fact and has been proven over and over. The ONLY way to have a legal pistol is to start with a virgin receiver. If you TC left the factory as a rifle and was shown shipped from them as such it can NEVER be a pistol, no way no how, it can not happen. Other then a rifle the ONLY legal thing a TC rifle can become is an SBR with the proper paperwork.

    If your TC left as a frame only (not sure if this was done before TC sold them all as pistols) then in theory if it had a stock and 16"+ barrel on it first it is and will alway legally be a rifle (see above).

    If you TC left as a pistol then in theory it will always be a pistol. It is the ATF's opinion that if you ever put a stock and 16"+ barrel on that it will become a rifle and to return to "pistol" you would have to fill out NFA paperwork for "weapon made from a rifle" which to the best of my knowledge no one has ever attempted to submit since it in theory would be a SBR. In common practice I believe most people that have a pistol frame switch back and forth with no worries since if the serial number is run it will show up as a pistol. In theory if the ATF had proof that you had "rifle" parts on the frame then switched back the could take you to court over it.
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