Sig P226 recoil spring for 124gr Nato 9mm ammo?
Should I change out the factory recoil spring in my sig p226 to shoot full power 9mm Nato 124gr ammo?
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UH, NO THAT IS WHAT THE PISTOL IS DESIGNED FOR. 0 -
If you have a bunch of rounds through it, I would put a new spring of the same weight in it. Sig double wound springs las a lot longer than most. Get a factory spring and compare it,s length with the old one. 0 -
Bruce Gray, the Sig-Sauer Guru, recommends recoil spring change every 3000 rounds and thorough lubrication. Otherwise, that is the gun's design round, I had to underspring mine for mild target loads. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by leeblackman
Should I change out the factory recoil spring in my sig p226 to shoot full power 9mm Nato 124gr ammo?
You shouldn't have to, no.0 -
Wasn't sure. I know that handgun mfg's usually try to design a gun that will shoot all make/model's of ammo in that particular cartridge within SAAMI specs. And I typically understand that if one uses +P+ ammo, its better to put a heavier recoil spring in the gun to counter the shorter lock time caused by the heavier ammo. And I don't have a chronograph to see if the standard deviation is excessive or not.
I didn't know if 124gr Nato 9mm was considered +P type ammo or not. I just know that I'm seeing it goes about 100fps faster, or more than some of the defensive 124 JHP ammo out there.0 -
quote:Originally posted by leeblackman
Wasn't sure. I know that handgun mfg's usually try to design a gun that will shoot all make/model's of ammo in that particular cartridge within SAAMI specs. And I typically understand that if one uses +P+ ammo, its better to put a heavier recoil spring in the gun to counter the shorter lock time caused by the heavier ammo. And I don't have a chronograph to see if the standard deviation is excessive or not.
I didn't know if 124gr Nato 9mm was considered +P type ammo or not. I just know that I'm seeing it goes about 100fps faster, or more than some of the defensive 124 JHP ammo out there.
Well, 9mm NATO *IS* hotter than ordinary 9mm luger.
Getting to the nitty gritty:
C.I.P (European) pressure spec on 9mm luger is 34080 PSI (235 MPa)
SAAMI spec on 9mm luger is 35000 PSI.
Per C.I.P, 9mm NATO runs at 36550 PSI (252 MPa).
SAMMI spec on 9mm +P is up to 38500 PSI.
So by the numbers, 9mm NATO is hotter than ordinary 9mm luger, but not quite as hot as maximum allowable 9mm+P.
Note that 9mm+P ammo isn't always loaded to it max spec pressure.
Also note that SAAMI doesn't recognize a 9mm +P+ category. In practice, I think most of those rounds aren't actually loaded higher than the maximum permissible 9mm +P pressure, despite the label implication.
Lastly, "proof" loads for 9mm luger guns run upwards of 40,000 PSI. That means that none of the standard service type loads (NATO, +P, etc) ought to "blow up" a serviceable pistol, though the higher pressure rounds will increase slide-frame battering, resulting in greater wear and tear over time, especially in guns sprung for ordinary rounds.
I think the bottom line is, you're not going to break or blow up your gun with a few magazines of +P or 9mm NATO rounds every so often. You don't "have" to change out the magazine spring in this case.
If you intend to shoot ONLY or predominantly 9mm+P loads, or particularly if you intend to shoot a high number of them, your gun will last longer if you put in a heavier weight spring (or make sure you change the normal spring more frequently).0 -
typically you would only NEED to change recoil springs to get the gun to operate if you're shooting LOWER powered cartridges because the spring may be too stiff to allow the gun to cycle properly.
But since, as Bean pointed out full power NATO rounds are actually slightly hotter, you wouldn't NEED to change, unless you had a worn spring, or were trying to prevent premature wear of your firearm... it will cycle properly (although harder).
But you asked SHOULD you...0 -
bean, not doubting the numbers you quoted, but I'm pretty sure i saw pressure numbers somewhere that show the nato rounds 10% hotter than +p. has anyone else seen those numbers? maybe it was at buffalo bore, i'll check.
tom0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by leeblackman
Wasn't sure. I know that handgun mfg's usually try to design a gun that will shoot all make/model's of ammo in that particular cartridge within SAAMI specs. And I typically understand that if one uses +P+ ammo, its better to put a heavier recoil spring in the gun to counter the shorter lock time caused by the heavier ammo. And I don't have a chronograph to see if the standard deviation is excessive or not.
I didn't know if 124gr Nato 9mm was considered +P type ammo or not. I just know that I'm seeing it goes about 100fps faster, or more than some of the defensive 124 JHP ammo out there.
Well, 9mm NATO *IS* hotter than ordinary 9mm luger.
Getting to the nitty gritty:
C.I.P (European) pressure spec on 9mm luger is 34080 PSI (235 MPa)
SAAMI spec on 9mm luger is 35000 PSI.
Per C.I.P, 9mm NATO runs at 36550 PSI (252 MPa).
SAMMI spec on 9mm +P is up to 38500 PSI.
So by the numbers, 9mm NATO is hotter than ordinary 9mm luger, but not quite as hot as maximum allowable 9mm+P.
Note that 9mm+P ammo isn't always loaded to it max spec pressure.
Also note that SAAMI doesn't recognize a 9mm +P+ category. In practice, I think most of those rounds aren't actually loaded higher than the maximum permissible 9mm +P pressure, despite the label implication.
Lastly, "proof" loads for 9mm luger guns run upwards of 40,000 PSI. That means that none of the standard service type loads (NATO, +P, etc) ought to "blow up" a serviceable pistol, though the higher pressure rounds will increase slide-frame battering, resulting in greater wear and tear over time, especially in guns sprung for ordinary rounds.
I think the bottom line is, you're not going to break or blow up your gun with a few magazines of +P or 9mm NATO rounds every so often. You don't "have" to change out the magazine spring in this case.
If you intend to shoot ONLY or predominantly 9mm+P loads, or particularly if you intend to shoot a high number of them, your gun will last longer if you put in a heavier weight spring (or make sure you change the normal spring more frequently).
Thats the answer and information I was looking for, thanks BTS. I am predominantly going to be shooting 9mm 124gr Winchester Nato thru my p226. I just bought 4 boxes at 14.99 each locally, and really like the way it shoots, so I'm going back to buy the remaining stock.
Eventually I'm going to invest in another chronograph (my last one died) and start answering my own questions, but I really really appreciate your input.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tplumeri
bean, not doubting the numbers you quoted, but I'm pretty sure i saw pressure numbers somewhere that show the nato rounds 10% hotter than +p. has anyone else seen those numbers? maybe it was at buffalo bore, i'll check.
tom
I've seen varying numbers too, that's why I looked them up for my last post. If you find different numbers, please post them and the reference. . .I'd love to see them.
Edit: Also, the "proof" pressures might be quoted and ought to be significantly higher than the standard max pressures, up to and exceeding 40,000PSI. Obviously, bullets you buy off the shelf or ones that actually get fielded by military units should NOT be proof loads!
To further confuse this issue, my understanding is that the European CIP generates its pressure spec parameters using a different methodology than SAAMI does.
So even though both organizations specify certain maximum pressures, and you can convert the CIP metric Pascal units into PSI (as I did above), the two aren't exactly interchangable. I remember reading/seeing that if you actually use the SAME measurement techniques, the NATO rounds are more or less equivalent to +P rounds.
Now, in PRACTICE, this probably doesn't matter.
Most of the European-style 9mm guns that we talk about are in fact military design/spec guns DESIGNED and INTENDED to be fired with 9mm NATO rounds. That includes Glock (Austria), Sig (Germany/Switzerland), Beretta (Italy), CZ (Czech republic), etc.
If you think about it, these are the pistols actually fielded by the members of NATO. My understanding, also, is that high-pressure 9mm rounds are basically the standard loading throughout Europe.
So at least on paper, I don't see why NATO rounds should pose a problem with ANY of these guns, even in high quantity.
While they will generally function just fine, these guns were really NOT restricted to "puny" American Winchester White box 115 grain ball "practice" rounds!0
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