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.223 for deer

logan1
Hey guys thinking about getting a Remington youth in .223 for my kids for next deer season. Anybody have any thoughts on this caliber for whitetail? How about bullet weight or any other advice.
Thanks.
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Comments

17 comments

Date Votes
  • catpealer111
    The .223 has a light recoil, it doesn't pack that much of a punch. I would recommend a 30-30 for a beginning hunter.
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  • tsr1965
    The 223 will work for deer, but it is not a beginners rifle...you owe more to the deer. IMHO, if it is used against deer, in the hands of anyone other than a confidant marksman, the bullets/loads that should be used, will either contain a Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition, or a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet. Those are the only bullets that will get through the shoulder, and into the vitals, and are the controlled expansion type bullet.

    Yes, I have killed deer with a lot less, and have even used a 223 with a 40 grain Ballistic Tip BEHIND the shoulder and into the lungs. I used a 17 Fireball this year on one also. You must be precise, confidant, and able to wait for the right shot.

    I would personally go with a 243, or 257 Roberts. The recoil is not that much more. We had an 8 year old this year use my Ruger 77MKII SS in 243, take his first buck. He is a very slender and short fella too...maybe 65 pouonds...the 243 didn't bother him, and he is recoil sensative.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    My opinion has slightly changed on this subject. Everything has to be done EXACTLY right with a small caliber. I have killed several deer with small calibers too...22LR, 17HMR, 22 WMR, 22 Hornet, 17 Fireball to name a few. Each shot taken was precise, on a STANDING, or LAYING DOWN deer. All inside 125 yards. This year we had the youngster with us, that got his first buck. He also wounded his first buck...with the 223. He done just what he had seen on TV too...put it right on the shoulder...the load was a Remington 55 GR Core-Lokt...it did not penetrate the shoulder at 20 yards...it grenaded and created a superficial wound that did not penetrate to the vitals. Had the load been a Federal Premium with the 60 grain Partitian, it would have been a dead deer. As it was, we had good blood for about 250 yards untill the artery closed itself off. We did kill that wounded deer 2 weeks later. Not something I would wish for another first time hunter to experience. So, just keep this in mind of what you want for an experience for your new hunters.
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  • Mark G
    Might also try a 243.
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  • RCrosby
    +1 tsr,
    NOT a beginners rifle. I'd vote for the .243 with a good 100 grain bullet of appropriate construction. You can kill a deer with just about anything. Hell, the .22 RimFireMagnum is legal here, but that doesn't make it right![:D][:D]
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  • FEENIX
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    The 223 will work for deer, but it is not a beginners rifle...you owe more to the deer. IMHO, if it is used against deer, in the hands of anyone other than a confidant marksman, the bullets/loads that should be used, will either contain a Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition, or a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet. Those are the only bullets that will get through the shoulder, and into the vitals, and are the controlled expansion type bullet.

    Yes, I have killed deer with a lot less, and have even used a 223 with a 40 grain Ballistic Tip BEHIND the shoulder and into the lungs. I used a 17 Fireball this year on one also. You must be precise, confidant, and able to wait for the right shot.

    I would personally go with a 243, or 257 Roberts. The recoil is not that much more. We had an 8 year old this year use my Ruger 77MKII SS in 243, take his first buck. He is a very slender and short fella too...maybe 65 pouonds...the 243 didn't bother him, and he is recoil sensative.

    Best


    Ditto! My boys both started at age 10 with 6.5x55 Carl Gustaf carbine loaded with 139/140 SP.

    Good luck.
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  • logan1
    Thanks guys, thats what I was thinking always thought a little too light with deer, no bullet weight or knockdown power.
    Really looking at bolt action any good rifles in small build for younger kids with small frames, was wondering what a Remington model 7 would be like.
    Other question how bads the kick on a 7mm-08 on a 120 lb, 5ft child?
    Never fired one hunted for years with the 30-30 before moving up to the .308, and to be honest the hammer safety set up on a lever makes me nervous with my two kids and was trying to avoid it if possible.
    Any other thoughts we be great .
    Thanks again.
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  • Mobuck
    I have a couple of 7mm08 rifles one of which was used by a beginning shooter this year. I used starting loads to get the recoil down. I would suggest you try some Remington Managed Recoil ammo for starters or load a similar velocity/bullet weight. Years ago, I tried reducing the velocity of 243 reloads to accomodate a very small, recoil sensitive shooter. Bullet performance was poor until I found a bullet that would expand at the lower speed. Keep in mind that you should limit range to match the skill of the shooter(allowing for the excitement factor) and power factor of your rifle.
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  • beantownshootah
    Its a little bit off the beaten path, maybe, but I recently saw a 8 year old kid shooting an SKS rifle (7.62x39) and though the overall gun was a bit heavy for him, he had no problem whatsoever dealing with the recoil and was really having fun shooting it off a rest.

    Ballistically this is similar to a 30/30, though in its stock form, the SKS has a less sporting appearance.

    I agree with the posters suggesting a .243. That's a relatively low recoil choice that packs a good bit more punch than a .223.

    As a readily available caliber, 30/30, of course, could also work.
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  • ruger41
    Is .223 legal to use for deer in your state logan? I know people have killed deer with it but I personally think it's not a great choice for a novice--go with a .243 with the Remington reduced load if he is recoil sensitive or maybe even a Winchester or Marlin in .44 Mag(with the new Hornady Leverevolution ammo it would be a great whitetail killer).
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  • we_dig_it
    My 12 yr old hunts with a 243 with a 95 grain ballistic tip. He has killed 3 deer with it, awesome combination.
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  • carbine100
    quote:Originally posted by logan1
    was wondering what a Remington model 7 would be like.
    Other question how bads the kick on a 7mm-08 on a 120 lb, 5ft child?


    Started my kids off with a Remington youth model seven in .243. The 7mm-08 has a little more recoil. If you reload, it can be loaded with lighter bullet at slightly reduced velocity to get down to .243 recoil easily.

    p.s. I enjoyed carying the youth gun when they were not hunting. Short, light, and quick for still hunting. Also changed out to a full-sized stock when they got older.
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  • ern98
    Check the hunting regs of the states you may hunt in. Some states prohibit the use of smaller/.223 rounds for hunting big game. Other great cartridges that have light recoil are the 250sav and 6.5swede and would make great deer rifles for the recoil shy.....
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  • Mr. Perfect
    The .223 is not a great choice for a beginning hunter. As most everyone concurs go with a .243.

    That said my nephews hunt (first and second seasons for them) with a 30-30, and a .270 respectively.

    One of my cousins' sons started with a .280.
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  • sandwarrior
    +1 for the .243 or .257 Rob. they will kill any deer out there with authority. I will say it can be done with a .223. But I too, believe it too light for a beginner. The 30-30 is excellent when You are shooting in 200 yd. maximum shot areas. It lacks power when you go out West and need to shoot farther. Again, long shots aren't really for beginners unless they have a fair amount of experience on the range and have a solid hunter/coach right there with them.

    A 7mm-08 isn't a bad kicking rifle, even with full loads. The first thing a parent needs to do is get the kid some trigger time. Spend some time every night dry firing and practice handling the rifle. If you have issues about dry firing get some snap caps. That is one very inexpensive way to practice. And FWIW, the top shooters in this country do it all the time. Practice practice practice.
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  • Riomouse911
    Why would anyone use a .223 for deer when there are dozens of popular calibers that will make the kill easier and more humanely? Ya, ya, I have a buddy who uses a .17 Rem to head-shoot does on his familys' 10,000 acre place every year(with doe tags of course). He uses a 700 BDL in the tiny .17 Rem and swears by the whopping 25 gran bullets it launches. Still, it's too light, and not enough punch unless you have weeks to sit and cherry pick your 40 yard shots on a private place. Even if you do, it's just not worth it. There's a reason most states recognize a minimum caliber (usually .243), and the recoil is nuthin' compared to the performance when compared to a .22 cal centerfire. I'll bet that your kids will not even feel the (minimal .243) recoil when the deer is in their sights and they touch off the round to down it! I know I never did.
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by Riomouse911
    Why would anyone use a .223 for deer when there are dozens of popular calibers that will make the kill easier and more humanely? Ya, ya, I have a buddy who uses a .17 Rem to head-shoot does on his familys' 10,000 acre place every year(with doe tags of course). He uses a 700 BDL in the tiny .17 Rem and swears by the whopping 25 gran bullets it launches. Still, it's too light, and not enough punch unless you have weeks to sit and cherry pick your 40 yard shots on a private place. Even if you do, it's just not worth it. There's a reason most states recognize a minimum caliber (usually .243), and the recoil is nuthin' compared to the performance when compared to a .22 cal centerfire. I'll bet that your kids will not even feel the (minimal .243) recoil when the deer is in their sights and they touch off the round to down it! I know I never did.



    That is like asking why use a bow when there is a gun, isn't it?


    I will come to your buddy's defense...you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to small calibers and deer. If you have never done it you shouldn't be talking about it.

    Best
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  • RCrosby
    If you have never done it you shouldn't be talking about it.???

    I've never hunted deer with a .22 RFM, (legal here) but that's sure not going to stop me from telling anyone who asks that it's near criminal to attempt it. I grew up with stories about all the moose that were taken with Model 39 Marlins in these parts. Usually around 1 a.m. Not too much noise. Right behind the ear and the freezer is full. Still doesn't make it right.
    Just leaves too little room for error to be humane. Less than a perfectly placed bullet; an animal that takes a step just as the hammer falls; and on and on. As for the bow and arrow question. In my experience bow hunters are some of the skilled stalkers and hunters in the woods. Hardly the same as sending a new young hunter after deer with a gun that requires everything to be perfect or risk a sad end to a first hunt. I'll stick with the .243 minimum and lots and lots of trigger time.
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