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38 Special +P???????

tsr1965
Just looking for some opinions on the use of some 125 grain HP +P loads in a Colt Cobra, Detective Special(older model), and a S&W 36 flat latch.

Was wondering if limited to very little practice, and carry use would cause undue wear on the listed revolvers. The Cobra is Aluminum framed. The other two are steel.

Beantown,

I know you carry a 38 a lot, so please let me know your take.

Best
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Comments

5 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    I ruined, (out of time), a cherry Model 37 by shooting just a small number of plus P's in it. The early alloy frame guns weren't designed for plus P's. The were designed to be carried a lot and to be shot minimally. If you want to shoot Plus P's buy a Ruger SP 101, it's built like a tank, that's what I wound up doing.
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  • partisan
    NO +P's in the old alloy guns!
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  • 5mmgunguy
    P+s in older alloys guns are definitely not a good idea...unless you are looking for an excuse to buy a new gun...
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  • Zinderbloc
    Iffy in the Cobra, but I'd risk a few +P rounds in the M36 or the Detective Special, even if they were older models.
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  • beantownshootah
    TSR,

    No +Ps in older (non +P rated) alloy frame guns.

    Frankly, the older alloy guns are barely strong enough to handle ORDINARY .38s, and frame stretching is a recognized problem in those guns. This won't "blow up" the gun, but it might cause a not-quickly fixable jam at an "inconvenient" time.

    For this reason, personally, I won't carry an older alloy frame gun, period. Given the choice (and its not purely hypothetical), I would sooner carry a heavier less comfortable all-steel gun than one of the older non +P rated alloy frame guns.

    In general, I'd avoid use of +P rounds in the older steel Colt guns as well, just because the lockwork isn't all that tough and the guns are becoming increasingly collectible. I've heard stories about high pressure rounds knocking these out of time.

    If you want to practice entirely with regular ammo, but carry +P ammo in your steel Colt, I think that would be OK. A few cylinders full fired in emergency probably won't ruin the gun, and frankly if it ever came down to a situation where I'd have to actually use the +P ammo (eg my life is on the line), I really wouldn't care if the gun were ruined or loosened up afterwards anyway. That's a small price to pay given the stakes, and you have to figure that if you use any gun in a shooting incident, its likely to be confiscated as evidence.

    In terms of an all steel Smith flat-latch (ie non +P rated) J-frame, I think the conventional wisdom (anecdotally confirmed by Smith) is that if you practice with mostly ordinary ammo, and *occasionally* use +P ammo for practice and carry, you won't hurt the gun or yourself.

    Now in practice, with the cost of +P ammo being what it is, most shooters (myself included) are doing this anyway.

    I personally have fired +P ammo through a variety of personal non +P rated Smith J frames (including a flat-latch model 36), and will do so again with no hesitation.

    In practice, I rarely carry these older guns, since I have a lighter +P rated alloy frame 637-2 version for that. But when I occasionally do keep one loaded for "social" use, its ONLY with +P ammo. (If you care, its 125 grain Federal hydroshok +P, but others could be fine too. . .).

    Now this is controversial, but in my opinion, you're probably fine firing as many +P rounds through older Smith steel J frames as you like.

    Despite warnings about increased wear on the gun, I've never heard of anyone actually wearing out an all steel Smith J frame with +P ammo.

    The guns themselves are quite strong, and +P ammo is really NOT that much more powerful than ordinary .38 special. IIRC SAAMI spec on .38spl is 17000PSI and . 38+P is 18500PSI. Compare to 35000 PSI for .357 magnum. . .and consider that at one point Smith put out a limited run of old-frame model 36 guns in .357 magnum.

    Anecdotally, I've heard of individuals running loads significantly hotter than .38+P through older steel J frames with no problem.

    In short, I just don't think use of +P ammo in all steel J frames would pose a problem until/unless you fire thousands of rounds of it. In practice, these snubnoses usually get carried a lot and shot a little, or sit in drawers for years at a time unshot, so most of them NEVER go through that much ammo.

    If you REALLY think you want to fire thousands of rounds of high-power ammo through your snubnose, then you should probably get a .357.
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